India tour of Australia 17 Dec - 19 Jan: Tests

Eng in India, Afg vs Ire in UAE, SA & Oz in NZ, SL in Bang

Re: India tour of Australia 17 Dec - 19 Jan: Tests

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 pm

meninblue wrote:Sussex, I think you are not just getting the hang of what Indian fans want


I think the above is a prime example of why its not that sensible to listen to fans who might have a rather unrealistic opinion of their teams fortunes.

Lets go back to 2015 when Kohli gets thee job full time. India have lost 4 series in a row and just failed to win a one off test in BD. Its not that long ago they have gone 0-8 in back to back away tours of England and Australia. Their most recent tour, save for a lack of time, would have been 0-4 too. They have lost the whole of their great batting line up in a short space of time, their wicket keeper has retired after 90 tests, and they have not a single bowler with any worthwhile experience. Their main spinner has gone on high profile tours to England/Australia where he has been utterly taken apart in every one. The seam attack has one bright spark, but hes so unfit he will only play another 8 tests in 6 years.

Are you seriously telling me at that stage in 2015, if I said to you India would be an unstoppable machine at home and would beat Australia on their next two tours Down Under, you wouldnt have snapped my hand off? That after not winning 10 tests in OZ in succession and never winning a series ever, the sudden turnaround would be almost too hard to believe?

You say Kohli isnt developing players? When did India have two spinners like they have now? Ashwin and Jadeja perform much better for Kohli, as did Mishra, who nearly halved his average under Dhoni. Kumar performs better for Kohli when he plays. Bumrah is atm looking like the best seamer India have ever had, Kohli's guy. Shami averaged horrendously for Dhoni, turned into a wicket machine for Kohli. And then there is Ishant Sharma, who after years looking rubbish for Dhoni suddenly looks test class.

So yeah, every single bowler in this side is either better than any other bowler India have probably had in their history, or if they played for Dhoni, have developed more under him.

Then batsman.... every single batsman to play under both that have scored enough runs to appear on the cricinfo first page of averages (I cant be botherd to dig for one testers) has a higher average under Kohli, aside from Rahane, who just started his test career. So one could very much argue he has developed the players who can be compared better.

How many teams stumble on two epic generations straight away? After Bradman and the invincibles, check the batting averages for test caps from Australia in the 1950s. Not much to feast on (Harvey played in the decade, but nothing else of note that didnt just drift from the 40s). Steve Waugh's Australia gave way to Shane Watson opening and Marcus North in the middle order. West Indies went from a legendary team to Sherwin Campbell, Carl Hooper and Keith Arthurton. England rise to the top of the rankings and after 8 years are still trying to replace KP and Trott.

This was supposed to be a period of consolidation and developing a team... India did it while smashing anyone who steps off the plane and record performances in the toughest away series going.

I said at the start of the series, you have to give time to Indian batsman. Pant all of a sudden wins a series with two 4th innings that swung games. Gill at the top made a score. Shaw is still 20 odd. There are players there, maybe in 2-3 years time these might turn into quality.
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Re: India tour of Australia 17 Dec - 19 Jan: Tests

Postby meninblue » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:35 pm

sussexpob wrote:
meninblue wrote:Sussex, I think you are not just getting the hang of what Indian fans want


I think the above is a prime example of why its not that sensible to listen to fans who might have a rather unrealistic opinion of their teams fortunes.

Lets go back to 2015 when Kohli gets thee job full time. India have lost 4 series in a row and just failed to win a one off test in BD. Its not that long ago they have gone 0-8 in back to back away tours of England and Australia. Their most recent tour, save for a lack of time, would have been 0-4 too. They have lost the whole of their great batting line up in a short space of time, their wicket keeper has retired after 90 tests, and they have not a single bowler with any worthwhile experience. Their main spinner has gone on high profile tours to England/Australia where he has been utterly taken apart in every one. The seam attack has one bright spark, but hes so unfit he will only play another 8 tests in 6 years.

Are you seriously telling me at that stage in 2015, if I said to you India would be an unstoppable machine at home and would beat Australia on their next two tours Down Under, you wouldnt have snapped my hand off? That after not winning 10 tests in OZ in succession and never winning a series ever, the sudden turnaround would be almost too hard to believe?

You say Kohli isnt developing players? When did India have two spinners like they have now? Ashwin and Jadeja perform much better for Kohli, as did Mishra, who nearly halved his average under Dhoni. Kumar performs better for Kohli when he plays. Bumrah is atm looking like the best seamer India have ever had, Kohli's guy. Shami averaged horrendously for Dhoni, turned into a wicket machine for Kohli. And then there is Ishant Sharma, who after years looking rubbish for Dhoni suddenly looks test class.

So yeah, every single bowler in this side is either better than any other bowler India have probably had in their history, or if they played for Dhoni, have developed more under him.

Then batsman.... every single batsman to play under both that have scored enough runs to appear on the cricinfo first page of averages (I cant be botherd to dig for one testers) has a higher average under Kohli, aside from Rahane, who just started his test career. So one could very much argue he has developed the players who can be compared better.

How many teams stumble on two epic generations straight away? After Bradman and the invincibles, check the batting averages for test caps from Australia in the 1950s. Not much to feast on (Harvey played in the decade, but nothing else of note that didnt just drift from the 40s). Steve Waugh's Australia gave way to Shane Watson opening and Marcus North in the middle order. West Indies went from a legendary team to Sherwin Campbell, Carl Hooper and Keith Arthurton. England rise to the top of the rankings and after 8 years are still trying to replace KP and Trott.

This was supposed to be a period of consolidation and developing a team... India did it while smashing anyone who steps off the plane and record performances in the toughest away series going.

I said at the start of the series, you have to give time to Indian batsman. Pant all of a sudden wins a series with two 4th innings that swung games. Gill at the top made a score. Shaw is still 20 odd. There are players there, maybe in 2-3 years time these might turn into quality.



Karun Nair is no more in radar. He had scored a 300. Virat has a big role in that.

Siraj is 2 to 3 years late as test debutant. He should have been playing atleast couple of years before.

Rishabh was dropped after NZ series. Yet another goof up by Virat.

Rahul is badly treated by Virat since years now a ross formats.

Virat is also responsible for breaking Chahal and Kuldeep bowling pair in LOI.

His buddies Rohit and Shikhar keep getting free pass.

Even Chet was unnecessarily put under pressure by Virat.

India has lost lot of time in developing youngsters due to Virat's impatience and ridiculous selections.

Also his team selections are weird. He does the unexpected. Anyone remembers Bhuvi was dropped after having a dream test in SA. That was another example.

There are too many blunders he has done if we spare more time to list why he isn't a captaincy material.

Not that Ajinkya is better captaincy option in test but Ajinkya lead a lower quality team much better and under tough times.

Rohit is better LOI captain than Virat.
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