Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

they batted fewer overs in two innings than India did in one

and they weren't going all gung ho either. 18 wickets for the India spinners

Still, far from England's worst tour of India.

definitely. Won one and missed chances in two

more questions than answers though.

completely undone by spin, though, so no changes there

Salutations to Jimmy the Saint on his 700th wicket.

700 and out maybe?

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Salutations to Jimmy the Saint on his 700th wicket.

well, yes... indeed

remarkable number and remarkable longevity

I think he'll fancy going past SKW before he retires though

Yes congrats indeed to Jimmy for getting to yet another milestone. Have memories of discussions (possibly even on here ?) as to whether he had any chance of reaching 500 wickets...and/or 400 - maybe even back at 300

He obviously can't go on for ever ; but I am not seeing a man with any real thought of retirement just yet. His mate Stuart Broad opted out at a time of his own choosing - and finished rather nicely with wickets and a win. That coinciding of a player's knowledge of his own right time to go and the appropriate moment for his team to say farewell and look to a replacement isn't given to everyone. So Jimmy may not finish in such a fairytale manner : I am sure he accepts that. For now , he seems both keen to continue and good enough (despite a pretty lean last Ashes) to have a place in the England set up. He won't have to be dragged out kicking and screaming but the end (when it comes) will either be from a final realisation that the fire has gone ; or recognition that the time to pass the torch to someone younger has arrived , that will have him eventually step off into the commentary box. I don't think we are there just yet so hope he can give us a few more thrills on the field , at least in the coming English summer.

Quite encouraging that England's most effective players were the spinners, Bashir and Hartley.

meninblue wrote:But Ollie Pope has confused me and i am clueless why he lost form when it just started.Surely it was not a fluke innings with meticulous shots followed by very poor form later. What are your views about him overall as a test batsmam, not just on basis of this series. Like talent, hardwork, shot selection, technical flaws if any and how England hiw is he setup in England main team from selectors perspective or think tank management backing. Will he be given more chance.

Ever since Pope came into the team, I have said that he looked noteably vulnerable at the start of his innings, and for a while I have tried to study his technique and the reasons why that might be. I think its suffice to say as a general conclusion that his batting stance and setup is not repeatable before he truly gets himself set and comfortable - every ball he adopts a slightly different posture, position or setup. I can only guess that this is because he is fighting whatever natural bad habits he has, and that it takes him a few balls to judge the path of the ball and adapt to it.

As an example, when he is fully set and playing well, he has zero trigger movement in his setup. He stands tall, steady bat, head very still, very limited foot movement.. in contrast, when he first comes to the crease he shuffles around a lot, often moving towards the offside of the ball. It would appear that he naturally feels like he needs to play more to the offside, and that when he gets to the point of raising his bat in his backlift, he doesn't feel like he is in the right position and tries to adjust..... and as its a very rapid, late and unplanned adjustment, he is no longer still and ready to react to movement of the ball just a hint more, and the worst examples of it involve him opening his stance when he moves his back foot across and his front foot stays where it is, making it very hard to get across to play in the front foot. The real net result is he is particularly vulnerable to balls full and at the stumps. He gets bowled and lbw an abnormal amount.

Perfect example, watch that Bumrah ball he yorked him with a few days ago. Front foot stays leg side, back foot shuffles to off, the ball is full and he cant get to the pitch.... castled.

When he gets in, he is fine. He isn't a massive foot movement type player, but then he has a low centre of gravity, so he can remained relatively balanced without a great stride in. Good player into the covers, at his very best he has lovely wrists playing behind square, and he can punish you off his pads or to short stuff on the leg side (although his Bazball adaption of occasionally turning round to hit behind square on the leg is pretty wild).... I don't like how he plays shorter stuff on the offside. The balance of weight is good generally, but when things are really short and wide, he tries to reset his feet backwards to play aggressively, and he does lose control sometimes.

Wonder if his problems are caused by over coaching. There was a period in the county game where green pitches forced all batsman in April and May to think first of their off stump, and everyone too guard on the off stump to protect the outside edge. Pope always had an off side guard, but was felt he was vulnerable on balls passed the inside edge, so they coached him to take middle guard..... what is clear is, when he starts innings he wants to push back to that off stump guard position.... and the movement and bobbing head actually creates the problem he was trying to solve. He's excellent playing into the leg side, so I'd like to see him go back. If you want to target that front pad, go ahead.... as long as he is still at the crease and feels comfortable in his position, bowling for the lbw is going to cost you a tonne of runs before it works.

alfie wrote:He obviously can't go on for ever ; but I am not seeing a man with any real thought of retirement just yet

Sadly, I am not so sure Alfie.

One of the memorable parts of the series for me was that short session at the end of the day in Ranchi, when the ball was smacked out to Anderson on the boundary three times in quick succession, and he turned three singles into 12 runs with the grace of a 45,000 tonne battleship trying to turn. He then came on to bowl 3 overs of military medium pace the day after....

Was one of the those moments the ageless 42 year old suddenly looked much more his age.

Could be nothing. Tough tour for 20 something's as well, but I haven't seen Anderson looking so gassed ever...

Guess the true shock was Mark Wood didn't guarantee himself an extra 5 years as a test player by smashing India in the dead rubber game..... for once, he was useless in all of the games, not jsut the ones that mattered.

Average of 80 for the series.... that 3 year deal keeps looking better and better.

sussexpob wrote:

alfie wrote:He obviously can't go on for ever ; but I am not seeing a man with any real thought of retirement just yet

Sadly, I am not so sure Alfie.

One of the memorable parts of the series for me was that short session at the end of the day in Ranchi, when the ball was smacked out to Anderson on the boundary three times in quick succession, and he turned three singles into 12 runs with the grace of a 45,000 tonne battleship trying to turn. He then came on to bowl 3 overs of military medium pace the day after....

Was one of the those moments the ageless 42 year old suddenly looked much more his age.

Could be nothing. Tough tour for 20 something's as well, but I haven't seen Anderson looking so gassed ever...

Must be from the 4th Test when he covered 55km in the field

I think he should retire at the end of the summer and let Tongue and Potts open the bowling.

sussexpob wrote:

meninblue wrote:But Ollie Pope has confused me and i am clueless why he lost form when it just started.Surely it was not a fluke innings with meticulous shots followed by very poor form later. What are your views about him overall as a test batsmam, not just on basis of this series. Like talent, hardwork, shot selection, technical flaws if any and how England hiw is he setup in England main team from selectors perspective or think tank management backing. Will he be given more chance.

Ever since Pope came into the team, I have said that he looked noteably vulnerable at the start of his innings, and for a while I have tried to study his technique and the reasons why that might be. I think its suffice to say as a general conclusion that his batting stance and setup is not repeatable before he truly gets himself set and comfortable - every ball he adopts a slightly different posture, position or setup. I can only guess that this is because he is fighting whatever natural bad habits he has, and that it takes him a few balls to judge the path of the ball and adapt to it.

As an example, when he is fully set and playing well, he has zero trigger movement in his setup. He stands tall, steady bat, head very still, very limited foot movement.. in contrast, when he first comes to the crease he shuffles around a lot, often moving towards the offside of the ball. It would appear that he naturally feels like he needs to play more to the offside, and that when he gets to the point of raising his bat in his backlift, he doesn't feel like he is in the right position and tries to adjust..... and as its a very rapid, late and unplanned adjustment, he is no longer still and ready to react to movement of the ball just a hint more, and the worst examples of it involve him opening his stance when he moves his back foot across and his front foot stays where it is, making it very hard to get across to play in the front foot. The real net result is he is particularly vulnerable to balls full and at the stumps. He gets bowled and lbw an abnormal amount.

Perfect example, watch that Bumrah ball he yorked him with a few days ago. Front foot stays leg side, back foot shuffles to off, the ball is full and he cant get to the pitch.... castled.

When he gets in, he is fine. He isn't a massive foot movement type player, but then he has a low centre of gravity, so he can remained relatively balanced without a great stride in. Good player into the covers, at his very best he has lovely wrists playing behind square, and he can punish you off his pads or to short stuff on the leg side (although his Bazball adaption of occasionally turning round to hit behind square on the leg is pretty wild).... I don't like how he plays shorter stuff on the offside. The balance of weight is good generally, but when things are really short and wide, he tries to reset his feet backwards to play aggressively, and he does lose control sometimes.

Wonder if his problems are caused by over coaching. There was a period in the county game where green pitches forced all batsman in April and May to think first of their off stump, and everyone too guard on the off stump to protect the outside edge. Pope always had an off side guard, but was felt he was vulnerable on balls passed the inside edge, so they coached him to take middle guard..... what is clear is, when he starts innings he wants to push back to that off stump guard position.... and the movement and bobbing head actually creates the problem he was trying to solve. He's excellent playing into the leg side, so I'd like to see him go back. If you want to target that front pad, go ahead.... as long as he is still at the crease and feels comfortable in his position, bowling for the lbw is going to cost you a tonne of runs before it works.

Thanks Sussex. Nice technical post.

I saw the yorker wicket. As you mentioned the back foot movement was there. His bacfoot movement towards off stump is not as far, not as early as well not as quick as Steven Smith but it is there.

I also watched some of his innings in other series. Observed that he played On drive to balls which was pitched on middle. While playing these shots the backfoot movement towards off stump was not at all there though. Maybe he considers line and length of the ball before deciding where his backfoot moves.Will need to watch more though.