Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

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Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:08 pm

The fact that six Universities still maintain first class status is a joke, a disgrace, call it what you want but the fact is they are nowhere near good enough to be competitive against any of the 18 counties. Despite numerous poundings by county sides, they have still kept their first class status and more worringly, over the last few years, the number of MCCU's have increased.

I don't mind the University sides playing a couple of games at the start of the season but they shouldn't be considered as first class because they can't just compete. It's not only the Universities that get embarrassed by these thumpings, the county sides are as well because they can't believe how easy it is to score runs and take wickets. Nick Compton and James Hildreth are decent county batsman but there should be no way that they can put on a partnership of 450 against a first class side! Today probably signified the end of Universities with first class status (well, hopefully), Durham MCCU were bowled out for just 18. Yes, 18! This is just not acceptable at this level or any level. Ben Stokes probably enjoyed it though as he boosted his average significantly by, firstly, smashing 93 off 70 and then 65 off 45 before taking 4/3!

There is just no contest between the sides and the difference in quality is so vast that these practice matches have no worth at all. When the season starts, counties then wonder why their batsmen struggle, it's because they haven't had sufficent practice against top quality opposition.

Blasting a double hundred in a University match means nothing and even though it makes their record look better, it doesn't reflect how good they actually are. The MCC are obviously keen in giving Universities matches against county sides and i can sort of see why, because they have a chance to find some talented youngsters that could go on to play county cricket or even play at an even higher level. Zafar Ansari is a recent example of someone who has come from a University (Cambridge) and gone on to play county cricket. You might find one good player in each team but the rest are just passengers and there is no point of them actually playing as they just concede runs at 6 an over and boost the averages of the batsman (sometimes not even the batsman - David Masters and Tim Phillips hit 50's last week!)

I'm not against Universities playing against counties but i still can't fathom why they are still classed as first class. At the very least, 2 sides (probably Oxford and Cambridge) should keep their status as they can give some teams a game (for a while) but the other 4 (Durham, Cardiff, Leeds/Bradford, Loughborough) are just getting thrashed game after game after game.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:13 pm

I would disagree, in the past counties have posted lower totals than 18. We haven't stripped them of their right to play the game.

It is good exposure for players who may well play the game after university and frankly getting concerned about the classification of the game is a bit touchy really. I am a purist and this is cricketing tradition, so I don't see why we would change it.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:22 pm

braveneutral wrote:I would disagree, in the past counties have posted lower totals than 18. We haven't stripped them of their right to play the game.

Yes, but not recently! Also, i said they should still be allowed to play against counties but they shouldn't be considered as first class.

They are never competitive! Hildreth and Compton put on 450! Look how many times, Universities have been bowled out for under 150 this season. It's like what would happen if USA played Test cricket.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:28 pm

England's_No7 wrote:
braveneutral wrote:I would disagree, in the past counties have posted lower totals than 18. We haven't stripped them of their right to play the game.

Yes, but not recently! Also, i said they should still be allowed to play against counties but they shouldn't be considered as first class.

They are never competitive! Hildreth and Compton put on 450! Look how many times, Universities have been bowled out for under 150 this season. It's like what would happen if USA played Test cricket.

Ok, so then I think Blackwell should not be allowed to play first class cricket as he only averaged 7 versus this clearly weak opposition. Even if a side is bowled out for less than 150, it doesn't really mean much does it? Should a couple of county sides get bowled out for less than 150 a couple of times this season, should we remove their status?

It doesn't matter if it is recent does it, it has happened, they did not lose their status and thus a precedent is set.

Knee-jerk.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:34 pm

When was the last time a University side won a match?

Nearly every time, they get thrashed.

18 is the lowest first class score since 1959 and is the lowest score in English cricket for about 90 years, when there were uncovered pitches.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:41 pm

Give me 3 good reasons why Universities should keep their first class status?
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:41 pm

England's_No7 wrote:When was the last time a University side won a match?

Nearly every time, they get thrashed.

18 is the lowest first class score since 1959 and is the lowest score in English cricket for about 90 years, when there were uncovered pitches.

So, what does that matter? You are discussing a sport which is full of statistical abnormalities. Hyderabad scored 21 in the 2010/11 season. Did they lose their status?

Whether they win matches is irrelevant, but I feel that they still offer the counties exactly what they need, a bit of practice and a chance to see the ball well for the batsmen. They are clearly deemed of some use otherwise they wouldn't be played. They have been first-class games for nearly forever, why change that after a few bad results.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:43 pm

England's_No7 wrote:Give me 3 good reasons why Universities should keep their first class status?

1. Tradition.

2. Precednt of low-scoring teams not losing their status.

3. Practice value/ tradition of international players coming through the system.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:47 pm

braveneutral wrote:
England's_No7 wrote:When was the last time a University side won a match?

Nearly every time, they get thrashed.

18 is the lowest first class score since 1959 and is the lowest score in English cricket for about 90 years, when there were uncovered pitches.

So, what does that matter? You are discussing a sport which is full of statistical abnormalities. Hyderabad scored 21 in the 2010/11 season. Did they lose their status?

Whether they win matches is irrelevant, but I feel that they still offer the counties exactly what they need, a bit of practice and a chance to see the ball well for the batsmen. They are clearly deemed of some use otherwise they wouldn't be played. They have been first-class games for nearly forever, why change that after a few bad results.

Nearly forever?

Oxford and Cambrige have been (as i said, i don't mind if they keep their status).
Loughborough - since 2003
Leeds - since 2012
Durham - since 2001
Cardiff - since 2012

They have been playing against counties forever but have only just been given first class status.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:52 pm

braveneutral wrote:
England's_No7 wrote:Give me 3 good reasons why Universities should keep their first class status?

1. Tradition.

2. Precednt of low-scoring teams not losing their status.

3. Practice value/ tradition of international players coming through the system.

Tradition - About 9 years.
Low scoring - Never competitive and haven't showed signs of improvement. Whether, it's Uni v Uni or Uni v County.
Practice value - Yes, but counties can find better practice. Durham had a good quality game against Yorkshire last week and then faced Durham MCCU and it was just way too easy for them.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:55 pm

Yes, but I am sure that that is politcal, Oxbridge tends to get preferetial treatment, so why should other universities that play the same matches not. Oxbridge would be unlikely to lose their FC priveleges and the only solution is making the other sides who play those matches have the same priveleges. Anyway, in your lifetime, that is nearly forever. ;)

Tradition - since Oxford and Cambridge played their first FC matches. YEARS ago.

Low scoring - missed the point a bit, not that they were low-scoring, but you can't justify removing FC status from teams who post 100-odd or 18, unless you do it to all teams who do that.

Practice value - do you not suspect that some teams want some easier but not diabolically easy games to get their batsmen prepared?

Ignored the fact that lots of internationals have come through this system, even relatively recently.
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:02 pm

My idea would be to combine those 6 University teams into one team.

Combined MCCU's would have the best players from those 6 MCCU's so that they have a chance of producing a competitive match. At the moment, most of the team are just there to make up the numbers, my idea would ensure that the game is played at the highest quality possible as all the players will be of a good enough standard. If that doesn't work then go back to what they used to do 10 years ago (FC - Oxford/Cambridge, Non FC - Leeds, Cardiff, Durham, Loughborough).
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:08 pm

England's_No7 wrote:My idea would be to combine those 6 University teams into one team.

Combined MCCU's would have the best players from those 6 MCCU's so that they have a chance of producing a competitive match. At the moment, most of the team are just there to make up the numbers, my idea would ensure that the game is played at the highest quality possible as all the players will be of a good enough standard. If that doesn't work then go back to what they used to do 10 years ago (FC - Oxford/Cambridge, Non FC - Leeds, Cardiff, Durham, Loughborough).

I don't think that you can limit those two to FC and the others to not being that way. There is an MCC Universities team already isn't there?
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I suppose.

At times.

Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby dan08 » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:12 pm

braveneutral wrote:
England's_No7 wrote:My idea would be to combine those 6 University teams into one team.

Combined MCCU's would have the best players from those 6 MCCU's so that they have a chance of producing a competitive match. At the moment, most of the team are just there to make up the numbers, my idea would ensure that the game is played at the highest quality possible as all the players will be of a good enough standard. If that doesn't work then go back to what they used to do 10 years ago (FC - Oxford/Cambridge, Non FC - Leeds, Cardiff, Durham, Loughborough).

I don't think that you can limit those two to FC and the others to not being that way. There is an MCC Universities team already isn't there?

Yes. They play with the 2nd XI teams but don't have FC status even though they have the best players from all of the Uni's. They are slightly more competitive and actually won 1 game last year (against Northants 2nd XI although that probably says more about the quality of Northants :hide )
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Re: Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

Postby braveneutral » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:21 pm

We will see come the end of the season...
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20/04/17 - Better than Bolt.
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I suppose.

At times.

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