Universities - A disgrace to first class cricket

[dan08]

Don't get me started on batting averages, ENo7 - the question is, is 39 significantly different from 37? I think not.

No, but at the end of a career if it is 45 rather than 40 then that is quite a significant difference.

It's in the name 'first class'. Are these teams 'first class'? No. They still struggle against County 2nd XI's. They just can't compete.

Would anyone like to see Canada at Test level? No because they aren't competitive and are just not good enough.

[dan08]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

[dan08]

Why do Universities play 3 matches against counties a year but only the first 2 count as first class?

"Each of the MCCUs will play three 3-day fixtures against full county sides, with first-class status conferred on the first two matches."

How does that work?

They either get first class status or they don't. You can't just have a FC match against a county then have another match against a county that doesn't mean anything.

[braveneutral]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

[dan08]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

There were a few more last year but that is a more recent one (April 2). Think about it, if you were the coach of a county, would you like to have a good quality practice match or a nice and easy one where most players score runs and take wickets for fun? Most counties only play 1 first class match before the season opener and they need all the practice that they can get.

[braveneutral]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

There were a few more last year but that is a more recent one (April 2). Think about it, if you were the coach of a county, would you like to have a good quality practice match or a nice and easy one where most players score runs and take wickets for fun? Most counties only play 1 first class match before the season opener and they need all the practice that they can get.

The latter. I would want runs and wickets instead of my batsmen being dismissed cheaply and my bowlers being expensive and losing thier rhythm.

[Dimi]

Why do Universities play 3 matches against counties a year but only the first 2 count as first class?

"Each of the MCCUs will play three 3-day fixtures against full county sides, with first-class status conferred on the first two matches."

How does that work?

They either get first class status or they don't. You can't just have a FC match against a county then have another match against a county that doesn't mean anything.

Err, isn't it just the same as counties having friendlies against each other? Teams are allowed to do what they want, without having to adhere to some strict statistics based principal.

[dan08]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

There were a few more last year but that is a more recent one (April 2). Think about it, if you were the coach of a county, would you like to have a good quality practice match or a nice and easy one where most players score runs and take wickets for fun? Most counties only play 1 first class match before the season opener and they need all the practice that they can get.

The latter. I would want runs and wickets instead of my batsmen being dismissed cheaply and my bowlers being expensive and losing thier rhythm.

It's not exactly going to replicate the first match of the season which should be a high quality one. If your season opener is going to be against a top quality side like Notts. Facing a side like Somerset is going to be more benefical than facing Durham MCCU as you will be fully prepared for the good bowling that you will be bombarded by Somerset in the season opener. It may seem good by letting all your batsman smash the MCCU's attack around but it's not going to prepare you for the stern test that you'll face in the Championship.

[braveneutral]

Glamorgan captain Mark Wallace, "I'm a big believer in University cricket and its importance, but the matches continuing to have first-class status has become ridiculous..."

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

There were a few more last year but that is a more recent one (April 2). Think about it, if you were the coach of a county, would you like to have a good quality practice match or a nice and easy one where most players score runs and take wickets for fun? Most counties only play 1 first class match before the season opener and they need all the practice that they can get.

The latter. I would want runs and wickets instead of my batsmen being dismissed cheaply and my bowlers being expensive and losing thier rhythm.

It's not exactly going to replicate the first match of the season which should be a high quality one. If your season opener is going to be against a top quality side like Notts. Facing a side like Somerset is going to be more benefical than facing Durham MCCU as you will be fully prepared for the good bowling that you will be bombarded by Somerset in the season opener. It may seem good by letting all your batsman smash the MCCU's attack around but it's not going to prepare you for the stern test that you'll face in the Championship.

Isn't it? What good is getting 0-100 or a king pair?

[dan08]

Is that most or all? It is also an independent view, not that of a county.

There were a few more last year but that is a more recent one (April 2). Think about it, if you were the coach of a county, would you like to have a good quality practice match or a nice and easy one where most players score runs and take wickets for fun? Most counties only play 1 first class match before the season opener and they need all the practice that they can get.

The latter. I would want runs and wickets instead of my batsmen being dismissed cheaply and my bowlers being expensive and losing thier rhythm.

It's not exactly going to replicate the first match of the season which should be a high quality one. If your season opener is going to be against a top quality side like Notts. Facing a side like Somerset is going to be more benefical than facing Durham MCCU as you will be fully prepared for the good bowling that you will be bombarded by Somerset in the season opener. It may seem good by letting all your batsman smash the MCCU's attack around but it's not going to prepare you for the stern test that you'll face in the Championship.

Isn't it? What good is getting 0-100 or a king pair?

Unless you're facing someone like South Africa as your practice match then that probably won't happen. The idea is to replicate what will happen in the first game which means a similar quality opposition. I just don't see the benefits in facing a severely weaker team as you're not going to face anything like that in the Championship.

[DeltaAlpha]

I just don't see the benefits in facing a severely weaker team as you're not going to face anything like that in the Championship.

I do.

I play chess in the CMS Team, and the CMS mini-tournaments; in the former, the opposition is usually very strong, but less so in the latter. The thing is that when playing significantly weaker players, I'm able to experiment and do things just to see how they turn out - things I wouldn't dare to do in a Team Game. By doing that, I learn something.

Isn't the university cricket a similar thing?

[captaincolly]

Durham used to always play Cambridge(or it might have been Oxford) University in the first match of the season and when David Boon captained Durham he complained about it because he felt a game against a Uni side was poor preparation for the season because the standard of the opposition was very poor.
At that time Durham were a shockingly bad team but still far too good for University teams.
I

[dan08]

I just don't see the benefits in facing a severely weaker team as you're not going to face anything like that in the Championship.

I do.

I play chess in the CMS Team, and the CMS mini-tournaments; in the former, the opposition is usually very strong, but less so in the latter. The thing is that when playing significantly weaker players, I'm able to experiment and do things just to see how they turn out - things I wouldn't dare to do in a Team Game. By doing that, I learn something.

Isn't the university cricket a similar thing?

Good point. However, if county sides are experimenting in this way then surely it should be classed as a friendly as they aren't taking it seriously like a proper first class match (ie/ County Championship) which is why i think that Uni matches should be friendlies.

[ddb]

This thread seems like a huge over reaction. Hardly anywhere near a disgrace. Frankly, I don't really care so much about what is given first class status in stats. If only stats are used to judge players then you're going wrong anyway.

[dan08]

This thread seems like a huge over reaction.

When teams get thrashed quite often, questions are always raised but when a team loses by over 600 runs (happened a few years ago) or gets bowled out for 18 (today), that is just unacceptable.