Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

greyblazer wrote:

shankybiggestengfan wrote:What do you think is Faf's ideal position? Think he needs a bit of time to play himself in. Coming in at 6 is hardly ideal for him. More of a top order player IMO in limited overs cricket.

I think Faf can bat well at 5 or 6. I remember him once playing a scintillating knock against Essex in a QF at no.5. Now I can't remember the tournament but he will be ok at 5 or 6.The problem is SA are losing early wickets and Faf looks confused about whether he has to rotate the strike or go after the bowling.

That would have been in the now defunct Friends Provident 50 over competition at OT 2009 which was his last season with us as they changed the kolpak regulations that season and he didn't qualify. I was lucky enough to be there for that knock, he blasted 110 ish off about 70 balls coming in at 5 when we were 3 for 80 odd unfortunately he got out for 5 in the semi final against Hampshire theat we lost. He made a couple of other fifties for us after that, t'was a good season even though we didn't win anything I got to watch VVS up close for the second half of the season which made up for it a little.

Faf should at least be given the chance to bat at 3. I think he can do well at the top of the order. Just not convinced about him being used as a power hitter at 6. Faf is a fairly orthodox batsman. Someone like Miller would be a better option at 6.

Making_Splinters wrote:That would have been in the now defunct Friends Provident 50 over competition at OT 2009 which was his last season with us as they changed the kolpak regulations that season and he didn't qualify. I was lucky enough to be there for that knock, he blasted 110 ish off about 70 balls coming in at 5 when we were 3 for 80 odd unfortunately he got out for 5 in the semi final against Hampshire theat we lost. He made a couple of other fifties for us after that, t'was a good season even though we didn't win anything I got to watch VVS up close for the second half of the season which made up for it a little.

Needed a ripper of a catch to get him at gully though. He really was a top player for you guys and I was surprised it took him a further two years of South African domestic cricket to finally get a look-in with the national side.

Dimi wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:That would have been in the now defunct Friends Provident 50 over competition at OT 2009 which was his last season with us as they changed the kolpak regulations that season and he didn't qualify. I was lucky enough to be there for that knock, he blasted 110 ish off about 70 balls coming in at 5 when we were 3 for 80 odd unfortunately he got out for 5 in the semi final against Hampshire theat we lost. He made a couple of other fifties for us after that, t'was a good season even though we didn't win anything I got to watch VVS up close for the second half of the season which made up for it a little.

Needed a ripper of a catch to get him at gully though. He really was a top player for you guys and I was surprised it took him a further two years of South African domestic cricket to finally get a look-in with the national side.

indeed, was a great game, Lumb and Adams ripped us to shreds for the first 25 overs then we got the rest of the side for 100 ish after that. Mal and VVS gave us a bi of hope but every time we started to get going you got another wicket, Tahir had a blinder of a day too.

From what I know about Faf since he left us he's had very poor returns in Franchise cricket, only in the one day stuff has he made any runs so I'm not too suprised he's been out in the cold for so long. Top player for us and a really nice bloke too boot, one of those cricketers you just can't help but liking.

Yeah must be Friends Provident 50 overs competition 09.

So can this batting line-up help England to win a WC? Now bowlers won't win you too many matches away from home.

greyblazer wrote:So can this batting line-up help England to win a WC? Now bowlers won't win you too many matches away from home.

I don't know Grey, when we can bat at our own pace this side is very capable however when run rate pressure is applied they seem to wobble badly.

We'll find out in India where our bowlers won't be that effective and the home side like to make big scores.

Making_Splinters wrote:

greyblazer wrote:So can this batting line-up help England to win a WC? Now bowlers won't win you too many matches away from home.

I don't know Grey, when we can bat at our own pace this side is very capable however when run rate pressure is applied they seem to wobble badly.

We'll find out in India where our bowlers won't be that effective and the home side like to make big scores.

The problem with this line up is that they are not naturally attacking players. They can score at a decent(not rapid but decent) when they are at their top of their games. But when they are out of form, they likes of Trott, Bell, Cook and Ravi might just end up eating a lot of overs without scoring a lot of runs. In case of naturally attacking players, say for example, KP or Gayle, they are still capable of a streaky 30 ball 40, when out of form. I think our line up is OK but we need one more attacking player really. KP's chances of a comeback are looking brighter now. Here's hoping that he'll be back.

shankybiggestengfan wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:

greyblazer wrote:So can this batting line-up help England to win a WC? Now bowlers won't win you too many matches away from home.

I don't know Grey, when we can bat at our own pace this side is very capable however when run rate pressure is applied they seem to wobble badly.

We'll find out in India where our bowlers won't be that effective and the home side like to make big scores.

The problem with this line up is that they are not naturally attacking players. They can score at a decent(not rapid but decent) when they are at their top of their games. But when they are out of form, they likes of Trott, Bell, Cook and Ravi might just end up eating a lot of overs without scoring a lot of runs. In case of naturally attacking players, say for example, KP or Gayle, they are still capable of a streaky 30 ball 40, when out of form. I think our line up is OK but we need one more attacking player really. KP's chances of a comeback are looking brighter now. Here's hoping that he'll be back.

Just to look at those two quite valid points seperately Shanks, I'd disagree that say for example Bell will eat up balls, it is clear that he has put in a tremendous amount of working into his limited overs batting, he's gone from being a player who was reliant on a couple of scoring shots which were easily cut off by a decent captain - we could look as recently as the World Cup where is tendency to play spin with a dab sweep was rendered almost null and viod by Dhoni - to a player who is comfortable going over the top both off and on sied as well as using his feet to go aerial straight over the bowler's head too. We can see the same to a lesser degree with Cook who can now play over the top on the on side off the front foot as opposed to his earlier strenghs of playing off the back foot and in Trott who has worked on his reverse sweep and playing his sweep much squarer than he used to, though I would stress that these are definitely to a lesser degree than the improvements Bell has made. As for Ravi, he has all the shots though is still vunerable as he doesn't go back to spin bowling naturally but when he is out of form his foot movement completely vanishes and anything slightly back of a lenth outside off is going to get him out. Phew.

As for KP, I really don't see where he can fit back into the side, we can't not play six bowling options in the side - and no KPs "spin" and Trott's medium whatever you want to call it do not count - and Bell, Cook, Trott and Morgan are all at present nailed on. Now it might be easy to say drop Trott but that isn't going to happen.

Well, if our ODI team is good enough to ignore an in form KP, then it must be damn bloody good. Why are we worried?

Well where does he play Shanks, it's easy to say "He must play" but quite difficult to actually fit him in in a realistic manner.

The problem with this batting line-up is while chasing a target of say 270-280 none of them seem to think that there are lots of overs to bat. All of them leaving maybe Morgan seem to just panic and throw their bats around. If you don't have Sanath, or Gilly then look to build partnerships, keep wickets in hand and go after the bowling in the end overs. Even 100 runs can be got in the last 10 overs provided you have wickets in hand.

Even while setting up a target look to build partnerships, get big scores and in the last 10 overs go for the kill. 50 overs means 300 balls so there is enough time to settle down before you go after the bowling. Even when Trezza and Knight were giving a solid platform for a brief period it didn't happen so I can't be optimistic with this batting line-up. Bowlers have been really good this year but for how long? I don't know.

I think a deeper understanding of the game comes from the team as a unit growing and developing as they play more ODIs together. While most of our side have quite a lot of international and domestic experiance they have not played as a team for a particularly extended period of time and adding into that are most of the players either actively looking to expand their game in the case of Bell and Cook, are developing into a new role such as Kieswetter or just don't have that much experiance playing at international level such as Patel.

Take Bell as an example, he may have vastly improved his abilities to bat in ODIs, even considering quite how long he's been in the international game he's a different player than he was 24 months ago or even 12 months ago but he's still looking to find the balance between his aggresive stroke play and the skills of picking a ball to attack on it's merits that he learnt in Test cricket. The same is even more true of Cook who plays the Test game in a very traditional openers mold but in the ODI game he has to use shots he doesn't play in Test cricket and with a mentality that he doesn't use in Test cricket. Both of them are at present trying to overcompensate for their percieved slow scoring by trying to attack everything, much like Wright for example used to do, it will take a bit of time for them to just find the balance that works.

Some very valid points made! I still maintain though that if KP is committed till the 2015 WC and is in form, he can't be ignored from this ODI side.

I think part of the problem is that the guys at the top of the order are getting sucked into the boundry mentality that is prevalent in ODI cricket. They're a little too conscious of their percieved weaknesses of scoring too slowly so are being drawn into the idea that every ball has to go to the fence rather than realising that 300 may look daunting but at the end of the day a single off every ball will do the job. A six is no better than six well run singles if you don't score off the other five balls. It's a bit of a cliche but the top three do need to work on looking to rotate the strike every ball.

And Shanky, once again where does KP fit into the side realistically?