England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:57 pm

Alviro Patterson wrote:
I pretty much expect the same shuffling and swapping from England as the opening, no3, no6 and spinners roles are yet to be fulfiled.

Root has been up and down like a pole dancer already. Opener, no.3, no.6 and spinner....... all roles covered by the young man :halo:
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby andy » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:33 pm

GG - Amir Sohail wrote:What about something like:

Root
Cook
Bell
KP
Taylor/Ballance
Moeen
Stokes
A wk who can actually keep (?)

then 3 of Bresnan, Anderson, Broad and Onions. Would probably have to bring Monty back for Asian/turning pitches though.



Moeen's not good enough at all. Averaging a mere 36 in div 2!!! In div 2 an england hopefuly should be dominating this division and looking at averaging around the 50 mark...36 dosen't cut it, even in div 1.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby GG - Amir Sohail » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:55 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:
GG - Amir Sohail wrote:What about something like:

Root
Cook
Bell
KP
Taylor/Ballance
Moeen
Stokes
A wk who can actually keep (?)

then 3 of Bresnan, Anderson, Broad and Onions. Would probably have to bring Monty back for Asian/turning pitches though.



Moeen's not good enough at all. Averaging a mere 36 in div 2!!! In div 2 an england hopefuly should be dominating this division and looking at averaging around the 50 mark...36 dosen't cut it, even in div 1.


Averaged 62 with the bat and 33 with the ball last season. Has hardly been in div 2 his whole career and was decent for the lions in the summer and the epp in Aus. His career stats aren't great but then neither are Stokes'. That's not to say he's better than Stokes, just food for thought.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:11 am

What you've got to consider with Moeen Ali he has constantly battled with Worcestershire and barely had the luxury to be alongside with quality players. That suggests to me in the face of adversity, Moeen Ali is the right candidate for the England squad.

Also Joe Root originally got called up to the England test squad with a First Class average of 35ish.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:47 am

Alviro Patterson wrote:

Also Joe Root originally got called up to the England test squad with a First Class average of 35ish.

I have a feeling that that was also true (ish) of Trescothick

I like Moeen. I think he has the right stuff (I say that as someone who has only seen him a couple of times at the Riverside), and at 26, I think he is old enough to understand his own game, yet young enough to have a long international career.

I'd go as far as to suggest that he is precisely the type of player that England should be looking at
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby westoelad » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:41 pm

[quote="DurhamfootmanI like Moeen. I think he has the right stuff (I say that as someone who has only seen him a couple of times at the Riverside), and at 26, I think he is old enough to understand his own game, yet young enough to have a long international career.

I'd go as far as to suggest that he is precisely the type of player that England should be looking at[/quote]

Yeh-good established county cricketer albeit in Div.2 and it appears that he's established himself as the lead spinner in SRi Lanka. Cook,Root and Ali as England's future top 3 imo.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby from_the_stands » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:55 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:The top 7 in australia failed and failed badly, and have done so for a while now..There are only 4 players i expect to line up in 2015 against the aussies:

Cook,Bell,Root,Stokes

my top 7 for the sri lanka series

Cook
Root
Bell
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler (wk)


With the completion of Ashes series now over a month on, some of the dust has settled, yet for England there remains more question than answers. Having read through this thread (some of which is pretty funny) and a very fine blog, I might add, I don't think it is necessarily all doom and gloom for England. For a start, it's over a year away before they have to face the Aussies again, so there is time to rebuild... before the next annihilation.

The first thing is to sort out a coach. From an Oz point of view, I would love to see the King of Spain get the gig, because I don't rate him in any way shape or form. If the decision were up to me, my first choice would be Stephen Fleming. If he didn't fancy it, then I'd be speaking to Tom Moody. And if he didn't fancy it, then it would be Steve Rixon. An antipodean bias; maybe, but these three are highly regarded as coaches... otherwise the King of Spain it could well be.

The next point is the captaincy. I do feel that Cook had his chance, and now feel that he needs to concentrate on his ailing batting form, because England need Alistair Cook the batsman more than ever. The armband needs to be passed over to Ian Bell, who might just reveal in the role. I still don't like the Sherminator, and him being England captain will make me dislike him even more, but that's just the Aussie in me. As a cricketer, he is one of England's finest (gee, that hurt) and deserves a chance at captaincy. (That hurt too.)

I guess the next major issue is who to give the gloves to. There are three schools of thought here;

1 – Go back to Matt Prior. He has a proven record and is only 31. He's been England's best number 7 possibly in the modern era. He's no Gilchrist mind you, but neither is Brad Haddin, although Haddin is now playing as well as he ever has, and he's much older that Prior, who could still have hi best years ahead of him... or not.

2 – Stephen Davies, a great gloveman who is more than capable with the bat. He's been around, so he knows his game as well as he's ever going to, yet he's young enough to have years ahead of him. If Prior is deemed to be finished at international level (which he could well be), then just maybe this bloke is the next best bet.

3 – The third option is to go for someone young, with the idea of growing into the role, which doesn't really seem the English thing to do. Having seen a bit of Jos Buttler, I must confess to being a bit of a fan. I think this kid could be the next big thing for England, although to keep the many fickle English supporters happy, he does need to have a monster County eason to support his claim. Along a similar line of thinking, the England brains trust (bit of an oxy moron there) might be to look at options overseas, (which seems to be a very English thing to do) and have a chat to Sam Whiteman. I've peddled him before, only to be told that “England weren't interested in Aussies rejects, only rejects from Ireland, Zimbabwe and South Africa.” I reckon this kid has a big future, either for the three lions of England, or for the might baggygreen of Australia.

The next big issue, who to bring in to replace KP. This is a bit like Australia trying to replace Mike Hussey... not an easy task. I guess the current firm favourite wold appear to be James Taylor. He's batting at 4 for England A and did make runs the other day against Sri Lanka. Get him in, give him 12 months in the side to see what he can do. The cupboard seems a bit bare after that.

Next is who to open with Alistair Cook. Michael Carberry did ok I thought, in Australia, but clearly he isn't the answer long term. My answer to this problem; Sam Robson. The logic; get an Aussie in there! Given the long term goals England will have, they need long term prospects, and I reckon this bloke might just fit the bill.

Finally, who to replace Jonothan Trott at 3. Let's be honst, he ain't coming back. As much as I like Joe Root, I don't think he' quite there yet as a Test cricketer. He needs a solid year or two of County cricket to become a run machhine, then he'll be ready. In the short to medium term, for me, the answer is Nick Compton.

My top 7 for England against Sri Lanka;

Alistair Cook
Sam Robson
Nick Compton
Ian Bell (c)
James Taylor
Gary Ballance
One of; Prior/Davies/Buttler/Whiteman

I guess the back up options would be Joe Root and James Hildreth... and possibly Eoin Morgan if he has a bumper County season.

I wouldn't have Ben Stokes batting at 6, despite how well he porformed batting in that slot against the Aussies. For me, he would be contesting the number 8 slot with Tim Bresnan, but that's an issue for another thread.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby from_the_stands » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:27 am

When's part 2 coming out, CF? :dunno
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:33 pm

from_the_stands wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:The top 7 in australia failed and failed badly, and have done so for a while now..There are only 4 players i expect to line up in 2015 against the aussies:

Cook,Bell,Root,Stokes

my top 7 for the sri lanka series

Cook
Root
Bell
Taylor
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler (wk)


With the completion of Ashes series now over a month on, some of the dust has settled, yet for England there remains more question than answers. Having read through this thread (some of which is pretty funny) and a very fine blog, I might add, I don't think it is necessarily all doom and gloom for England. For a start, it's over a year away before they have to face the Aussies again, so there is time to rebuild... before the next annihilation.

The first thing is to sort out a coach. From an Oz point of view, I would love to see the King of Spain get the gig, because I don't rate him in any way shape or form. If the decision were up to me, my first choice would be Stephen Fleming. If he didn't fancy it, then I'd be speaking to Tom Moody. And if he didn't fancy it, then it would be Steve Rixon. An antipodean bias; maybe, but these three are highly regarded as coaches... otherwise the King of Spain it could well be.

The next point is the captaincy. I do feel that Cook had his chance, and now feel that he needs to concentrate on his ailing batting form, because England need Alistair Cook the batsman more than ever. The armband needs to be passed over to Ian Bell, who might just reveal in the role. I still don't like the Sherminator, and him being England captain will make me dislike him even more, but that's just the Aussie in me. As a cricketer, he is one of England's finest (gee, that hurt) and deserves a chance at captaincy. (That hurt too.)

I guess the next major issue is who to give the gloves to. There are three schools of thought here;

1 – Go back to Matt Prior. He has a proven record and is only 31. He's been England's best number 7 possibly in the modern era. He's no Gilchrist mind you, but neither is Brad Haddin, although Haddin is now playing as well as he ever has, and he's much older that Prior, who could still have hi best years ahead of him... or not.

2 – Stephen Davies, a great gloveman who is more than capable with the bat. He's been around, so he knows his game as well as he's ever going to, yet he's young enough to have years ahead of him. If Prior is deemed to be finished at international level (which he could well be), then just maybe this bloke is the next best bet.

3 – The third option is to go for someone young, with the idea of growing into the role, which doesn't really seem the English thing to do. Having seen a bit of Jos Buttler, I must confess to being a bit of a fan. I think this kid could be the next big thing for England, although to keep the many fickle English supporters happy, he does need to have a monster County eason to support his claim. Along a similar line of thinking, the England brains trust (bit of an oxy moron there) might be to look at options overseas, (which seems to be a very English thing to do) and have a chat to Sam Whiteman. I've peddled him before, only to be told that “England weren't interested in Aussies rejects, only rejects from Ireland, Zimbabwe and South Africa.” I reckon this kid has a big future, either for the three lions of England, or for the might baggygreen of Australia.

The next big issue, who to bring in to replace KP. This is a bit like Australia trying to replace Mike Hussey... not an easy task. I guess the current firm favourite wold appear to be James Taylor. He's batting at 4 for England A and did make runs the other day against Sri Lanka. Get him in, give him 12 months in the side to see what he can do. The cupboard seems a bit bare after that.

Next is who to open with Alistair Cook. Michael Carberry did ok I thought, in Australia, but clearly he isn't the answer long term. My answer to this problem; Sam Robson. The logic; get an Aussie in there! Given the long term goals England will have, they need long term prospects, and I reckon this bloke might just fit the bill.

Finally, who to replace Jonothan Trott at 3. Let's be honst, he ain't coming back. As much as I like Joe Root, I don't think he' quite there yet as a Test cricketer. He needs a solid year or two of County cricket to become a run machhine, then he'll be ready. In the short to medium term, for me, the answer is Nick Compton.

My top 7 for England against Sri Lanka;

Alistair Cook
Sam Robson
Nick Compton
Ian Bell (c)
James Taylor
Gary Ballance
One of; Prior/Davies/Buttler/Whiteman

I guess the back up options would be Joe Root and James Hildreth... and possibly Eoin Morgan if he has a bumper County season.

I wouldn't have Ben Stokes batting at 6, despite how well he porformed batting in that slot against the Aussies. For me, he would be contesting the number 8 slot with Tim Bresnan, but that's an issue for another thread.


Makes no sense to move Ben Stokes down the order for a variety of reasons

1. The no6 position has been problematic for England since Collingwood retired, Stokes has stepped up and in challenging conditions where others didn't. Moving Stokes down at 8 not only creates a problem in finding another batsman, but it also stifles up a bowling position and England have more bowling options available than batting ones.

2. Stokes is more of an impact bowler whilst Bresnan is a containing bowler, if anything they compliment each other.

In fairness to Joe Root he hasn't found a settled position in the test line up, batting at 6, 2 and 3 in his short England career. Despite this he has managed to score two centuries and averages 36.73, a decent return for a rookie international.

Steven Davies as a wicketkeeper/middle order batsman is quite a good shout, a more credible option than Bairstow or Buttler if Prior can't make a comeback.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:38 pm

they don't Davies though, do they.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby DiligentDefence » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:45 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:they don't Davies though, do they.

Don't what?
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:48 pm

Oh blimey.... sorry

they don't like Davies though, do they

must proof read before posting
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:19 am

Durhamfootman wrote:they don't Davies though, do they.


Apparently because he's not vocal enough behind the stumps.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:46 am

Don't know. Davies did ask not to be selected or a while after the 2011 tour of Australia on some away tours, for personal reasons. So it's not just that Davies was cut adrift.
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Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby from_the_stands » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:01 am

Alviro Patterson wrote:Makes no sense to move Ben Stokes down the order for a variety of reasons

1. The no6 position has been problematic for England since Collingwood retired, Stokes has stepped up and in challenging conditions where others didn't. Moving Stokes down at 8 not only creates a problem in finding another batsman, but it also stifles up a bowling position and England have more bowling options available than batting ones.

2. Stokes is more of an impact bowler whilst Bresnan is a containing bowler, if anything they compliment each other.


In the short term, you may be right and Stokes will stay at six. But going forward to the next Ashes series, I think James Anderson will have retired by then and the three seamers for England will be Broad, Bresnan and Stokes, with a spinner to be named later. I like the look of Stokes and think that he will only get better, especially as a bowler. Unless someone else come along between now and then, this will be the core of England's next Ashes attack, and they'll do ok.
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