England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Read the more in depth thoughts of our posters on various cricketing issues, topics and events - and please take the opportunity to leave feedback and enter into debate.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Gingerfinch » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:38 am

Broad, Bresnan, and Stokes? The aussies will be pooing themselves :-)

If Stokes can average around 30-35 with the bat, then he's fine at six, as he can obviously bowl. That three need another seamer, preferably one who can open the attack. Who know's Finn may make a comeback?
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 19366
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:24 pm

All being well, Anderson will play in the next Ashes. I've got a feeling that Woakes will replace Anderson eventually. If people with promise make good on that promise, this could be our lower order about the time Jimmy goes:

Stokes/Buttler/Borthwick/Woakes/Broad/Finn.

Though of course things won't be that predictable.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54021
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby sussexpob » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:58 pm

Dr Robert wrote: If Stokes can average around 30-35 with the bat, then he's fine at six


Indeed. The way to rebuild the batting line up is to give specialist spots to players who would struggle to get into the Bangladesh top 6.... :facepalm

Or alternatively, England can stop noncing around and pick 6 batters, a keeper, and their 4 best bowlers......
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 23720
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:50 pm

Six best batters, four best bowlers and an all rounder no good?
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54021
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby sussexpob » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:26 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Six best batters, four best bowlers and an all rounder no good?


If Matt Prior was on his 2010-12 form, then thats fine. Your wicketkeeper is averaging mid 40's and is good enough to lock down the gloves, and can bat at 6 given the promotion, with your allrounder adding batting depth to the level of most keepers with 30 runs per innings at 7. It works because your allrounder is batting as most keepers, your keeper is batting as good as a specialist.

Currently we are facing the prospect of two replacement keepers, one a brilliant county batsman who has been technically destroyed with the bat and put down chances with the gloves, which he is not good enough to take, combined with a number 6 who is not good enough for a top side to bat there.

Even a top order of Amla/Kallis/Smith and De Villiers, South Africa were weary of the impact picking a specialist keeper would have when there was no standout candidate to bat at 6/7... they picked Duminy and De P and gave De Villiers the gloves, because they knew you couldnt combine a shaky 6 with a shaky 7.... even with a brilliant top 6.

England realistically are going to rebuild a batting unit around 3-4 new top order players, and when looking at what the newer batsman fresh out of county cricket have done recently, one also has to accept that we may face teams with a batting order that averages much lower....

With that in mind a non-specialist batsman in the top 6 positions becomes untenable unless he averages like on.... you simply have to put as many runs on the board as possible.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 23720
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:10 pm

I have a feeling that the majority of games are won with the well functioning core of maybe six(ish) top quality players. Of course, how many are in that group will make a difference, and getting your back up to support them matters. But realistically, you don't get eleven great players. England haven't in my time. We won in India with four players. And if we'd had that many in Australia (Anderson, Broad, Cook, Pietersen?) we'd probably have been competitive, because Australia only had about four. Trying to get a top seven of world class batters is probably going to be a fools errand. Likewise, five great bowlers. It's useful to get someone who can support both. And Stokes has clearly shown the potential to do that.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 54021
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:08 pm

Dr Robert wrote:Broad, Bresnan, and Stokes? The aussies will be pooing themselves :-)

If Stokes can average around 30-35 with the bat, then he's fine at six, as he can obviously bowl. That three need another seamer, preferably one who can open the attack. Who know's Finn may make a comeback?


Ben Stokes with a FC average of 35 based at the green-tops of the Riverside is very respectable.

But most importantly Stokes has the capabilities to turn a game around with both bat and ball, in a way Andrew Flintoff has done so for England. For that reason Stokes is best utilised in the top six.

Using player averages to determine England selection is not a very good benchmark, simply because very few county cricketers average above 40 with the bat and below 30 as a spin bowler.
In Phil Parkinson we trust
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed"
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory"

2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 16116
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Aotearoa
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Gingerfinch » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:39 pm

sussexpob wrote:
Dr Robert wrote: If Stokes can average around 30-35 with the bat, then he's fine at six


Indeed. The way to rebuild the batting line up is to give specialist spots to players who would struggle to get into the Bangladesh top 6.... :facepalm

Or alternatively, England can stop noncing around and pick 6 batters, a keeper, and their 4 best bowlers......


Ok, we'll grab a world class batsman off our prduction line. Bairstow, Morgan, anyone else. It's all about balance, sussex, and stokes may give us that. Btham batted at six, and averaged 35. I'm not comparing btw.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 19366
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby alfie » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:34 pm

I imagine Stokes will bat at six for now. With Swann gone , the extra bowling option is tempting even for an avowed six-four man like me. When and if a new spinner establishes himself things might be different : and by then we will have a better idea of how Stokes is developing as either bowler or batsman.
Of course if a batsman who can actually bowl serious spin ( a step up from Root ) wins a spot in the top six it all changes...

Not sure why FTS is so sure Anderson will be gone by the next Ashes : he is only 31 ; having a decent rest at last right now ; and as one who relies more on skill than brute pace there seems no reason he shouldn't go on for a while yet.

I see a forgotten man is doing reasonably well in the Lions tour : Plunkett ...remember him ? Only 27 : could he possibly come again ?

One "plus" from a disastrous Ashes is that selection is quite open and unpredictable again : gives everyone a lot more to argue about :)
alfie
 
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby andy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:40 pm

from_the_stands wrote:When's part 2 coming out, CF? :dunno



very soon :)
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests


Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 16154
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:17 pm

cricketfan90 wrote:
from_the_stands wrote:When's part 2 coming out, CF? :dunno



very soon :)


Will Jigar Naik get a mention :D
In Phil Parkinson we trust
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed"
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory"

2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 16116
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Aotearoa
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby andy » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:09 pm

no.
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests


Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 16154
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Alviro Patterson » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:24 pm

:(
In Phil Parkinson we trust
"You won't get anywhere slouching about half out of bed"
"They took all our players away, banned our captain and we still came away with a ten-wicket victory"

2011-12 Oz vs India Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Oz vs SA Tests FL guru | 2012-13 Bang vs WI combined FL guru | 2013 Friends Life T20 FL guru | 2015 The Ashes FL guru | 2015 County Championship D2 FL guru | 2016 Womens WT20 FL guru| 2016 Eng v Pak Tests FL guru | 2017 Kia Super League FL guru
User avatar
Alviro Patterson
 
Posts: 16116
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:07 pm
Location: Aotearoa
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Bradford City FC

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:51 am

Rebuilding for the future?

you can bet your bottom dollar that this guy will be central to it, sadly.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies ... 26421.html
Last edited by Durhamfootman on Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 29898
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC
I've given up football

Re: England - re-building for the future (PART 1)

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:54 am

But, come triumph or disaster, the England management are also keen to encourage within the new team the retention of positivity and exuberance. They do not want safety-first cricket; they do not want a team that plays the averages or seeks respectability. They know that, to win major T20 events, aggression is required.


I blooming hope so, and lets hope it spills over into the world cup campaign as well
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 29898
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC
I've given up football

PreviousNext

Return to Cricketing Blogs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron