Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/14

[andy]

good point rich, and to be honest KP's test place is safe...he averaged 80 in 2011 and like shanky said before in his worst year he still averaged 40, he has a clear hunger for test cricket.

[shankycricket]

Lord's, Old Trafford, Trent Bridge, Riverside, Oval.

In my opinion KP's place will be far more under threat than Strauss. Strauss will likely be the most successful England captain of all time by the time he is done. They won't shove him. SInce 1st Jan 2008, Strauss has 3117 runs at 43.29 with 9 centuries and 14 fifties. KP has 3337 runs at 50.56 with 9 centuries and 15 fifties. That is not the vast difference in statistics that you are suggesting...

So you are going 4 years back BN
Strauss since the Ashes 2009 is averaging 30.KP averages over 50 during the same period.A huge difference I'd say.

I think both are pretty safe.But KP is safe because he has scored the runs whereas Strauss is safe only because we are winning(largely because of others' contribution) and the lack of alternatives.Two completely different reasons.

[braveneutral]

Indeed, but you are not taking into consideration the benefits of a steady captain like Strauss and a disgraceful one like KP. The difference in their captaincy abilities and performance more than makes up for the difference in runs contributed. If Strauss was just a batsman, this would be a different issue. And what of me going back to Jan '08? You are going back to the Ashes '09. Why is this? Because it makes your statistics look more impressive, once more a repeat of the Sehwag debate.

[shankycricket]

Indeed, but you are not taking into consideration the benefits of a steady captain like Strauss and a disgraceful one like KP. The difference in their captaincy abilities and performance more than makes up for the difference in runs contributed. If Strauss was just a batsman, this would be a different issue. And what of me going back to Jan '08? You are going back to the Ashes '09. Why is this? Because it makes your statistics look more impressive, once more a repeat of the Sehwag debate.

So which stats do yo want to look at BN? 2011?KP averaged 73 and Strauss in the early 20s.

[braveneutral]

Indeed, but you are not taking into consideration the benefits of a steady captain like Strauss and a disgraceful one like KP. The difference in their captaincy abilities and performance more than makes up for the difference in runs contributed. If Strauss was just a batsman, this would be a different issue. And what of me going back to Jan '08? You are going back to the Ashes '09. Why is this? Because it makes your statistics look more impressive, once more a repeat of the Sehwag debate.

So which stats do yo want to look at BN? 2011?KP averaged 73 and Strauss in the early 20s.

Well exactly. Those are statistics which you wanted to use not me, otherwise I would have already mentioned them.

[shankycricket]

Indeed, but you are not taking into consideration the benefits of a steady captain like Strauss and a disgraceful one like KP. The difference in their captaincy abilities and performance more than makes up for the difference in runs contributed. If Strauss was just a batsman, this would be a different issue. And what of me going back to Jan '08? You are going back to the Ashes '09. Why is this? Because it makes your statistics look more impressive, once more a repeat of the Sehwag debate.

You shouldnt be the one accusing me of selective stats.I was looking at Sehwag's overall record outside the subcontinent whereas you preferred to look at one or two good innings that he played 8 or 10 years ago.Which one is selective?Anyways,lets not get there.
Regarding Strauss vs KP I think stats since December 09 are more relevant to the present than the stats since Jan 08.Anyways if you chose to look at more recent stats then it just increases KP's superiority over Strauss.

[braveneutral]

Yes, but the only reason that you selected the Ashes and didn't go further back is because that is more beneficial to your argument.

I have reiterated time after tome that statistics are a tool, I have not accused you of anything and you have clutched once more at the argument about the statistics as opposed to the argument which justifies slightly lessened statistics for Strauss.

With Sehwag I used a whole host of things to justify his ability, which I am confident that I did pretty capably. I used the fact that he had had big innings outside of the subcontinent to prove that he could do it, while looking at other aspects, such as his performance compared to others.

[andy]

KP's place is more than safe in tests, he has the hunger for it and does really well at it...strauss's place is safe whilst the team does well...as soon as our team drops in performance and strauss isnt scoring runs, then his place will be under massive threat.

[from_the_stands]

KP's place is more than safe in tests, he has the hunger for it and does really well at it...strauss's place is safe whilst the team does well...as soon as our team drops in performance and strauss isnt scoring runs, then his place will be under massive threat.

With any luck, Strauss will do a Kim Hughes and resign after the third Ashes Test in England next year!

[andy]

i like strauss, grown on me as a captain, obviously still have some faults, and when he is in form, good to watch bat, however he is struggling atm.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I see Mickey Arthur has pencilled in Brad Haddin for next year's Ashes overkill. Which hasn't gone down well in Australia.

Tricky grounds to keep on in the UK though. Maybe it'd be risky to select a keeper with no experience here. Maybe it'd be a good idea to look at someone in the ODIs this summer.

Nice of the Australian coach to make excuses for the England players as well. Who is it that he doesn't want to see dropped?

[from_the_stands]

I see Mickey Arthur has pencilled in Brad Haddin for next year's Ashes overkill. Which hasn't gone down well in Australia.

Tricky grounds to keep on in the UK though. Maybe it'd be risky to select a keeper with no experience here. Maybe it'd be a good idea to look at someone in the ODIs this summer.

I've been thinking a bit about poor old Brad Haddin, who clearly has fewer days ahead of him in terms of being an international cricketer, as there are behind him. He's done a good job for the Aussies, and now has a pack of younger keepers hot on his trail, with Matthew Wade becoming the new race leader following the injury to Tim Paine. Time is not on Haddin's side, and the walls are closing in! Should Wade continue to keep Haddin out of the ODI side, the selectors might have a big decision to make sooner rather than later. Haddin can't afford to fail in the West Indies. His next slip could be his last.

When Rod Marsh retired in the mid-80's, the wicket-keeping slot became a poisoned chalis for a few years until Ian Healy came along. He served with distinction, keeping Adam Gilchrist waiting in the wings for a number of years. Gilchrist redefined the role in a glittering career, eventually retiring and making way for Brad Haddin, whom similar to Gilchrist, had waiting several seasons before winning a Test slot. It's not beyond the realms of posibility that Tim Paine will make a comeback, although he's now up against some stiff opposition as other keepers around the country press forward their own claims.

As for Brad Haddin being earmarked for the Ashes, that's just Mickey Arthur partaking in the Australian tradition of supporting players publically when they're struggling. Mickey Arthur is merely expressing his loyalty to Brad Haddin by saying these things. Of course behind closed doors with his fellow selectors, I'm sure that when push comes to shove, loyalty will count for very little.

[andy]

what a suprise, i compeltely agree with everthing you said there fts

[shankycricket]

I see that the KP who was apparently missing the buzz of the IPL has come back home from the IPL 15 days in advance to get accustomed to the red ball before the Test series. Very selfish.

[ddb]

You speak like he had a choice