Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/14

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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:52 pm

I don't think so. After Lord's, the theme in all the cricket media was Australia's panoramic calamity. He was relatively moderate in his views.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Gingerfinch » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:47 am

Blimey, we're in Aus already. Two spots to play for then. I suppose a lot will depend on the warm ups, unless the selectors know already, which I doubt.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:52 am

The countown to Brisbane is also a countdown to my leave, so I'm doubly looking forward to the first Test.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:37 pm

This rather fatuous press bubble over Ponting's autobiography might add just a notch of pressure on Clarke going into the series preparation.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby sussexpob » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:48 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:This rather fatuous press bubble over Ponting's autobiography might add just a notch of pressure on Clarke going into the series preparation.


The issue in question may become a major factor should Clarke start this tour poorly, and his team also struggle. When your Vice-Captain, former captain, and a few older and highly respected players are coming out and seemingly criticising your methods and leadership skills, and your young guys arent doing their homework either, it doesnt cut much for a picture of respect or unification in the dressing room. If he bangs a hundred at Brisbane and Australia win, it could be easily forgotten, so who knows!!

I think Clarke is a poor captain myself, I have said so numerous times before and I am not suprised that this is coming out from Ponting..... Incredible that Katich had a bad series in a 3 year period where he had played about 35 tests averaging over 50 and got dropped once Clarke played the dark arts with the selectors.

Katich was not Bradman, but his skills and stickability embarrass everyone who has been picked after him.... its a shame that Clarke's personality would prevent him from being a short term pick, especially when he averaged 73 this year in England...

It seems everywhere you look people who have the foundation to criticise him have done... he is probably lucky there is no-one in the batting line up apart from him sure of his place, otherwise we might have already seen a widespread mutiny.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby sussexpob » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:00 pm

As for the series and Conn's positive evaluation of England, for all that is said about the recent series in England there is an unshakeable truth that Australia need to identify and conquer...... they limited the performance of some of England's key players more than they ever could have hoped, but came nowhere near to winning the series!!

I would bet my house on the fact that Cook/KP and Trott will be better this time around.... I would be suprised to see Ryan Harris go 10 tests in a row, or any Australian seamer.... I would be suprised if the added experience in Australia's middle line up/their spinner/Wicketkeeper/ and any newbie batters will step up to fill the quality gap.

Yes Conn is right, we have seen England's vunerability against this team, but we have also seen that England had the test match craft and quality to win the most important sessions time...

In the end you have a boxer with a weakish chin who can hit with tremendous power and precision, matched up against an inconsistent journeyman that always have an evil uppercut that can stun someone at anytime.....

Id always back the former, but the latter can, and often will, cause the upset
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:42 pm

My impression is that Ponting wasn't criticising Clarke's captaincy skills, but his time as VC when dating Lara, when Ricky felt Clarke wasn't focused on the side. Of course, Clark gets a lot of praise for his onfield tactics, less so for his leadership.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:40 am

Ricky Ponting's talking tour of Australia continues with him saying England are old and past their peak... But surely Australia are older?
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:51 am

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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:56 am

No spinner.

Hell of a tail.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:01 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:My impression is that Ponting wasn't criticising Clarke's captaincy skills, but his time as VC when dating Lara, when Ricky felt Clarke wasn't focused on the side. Of course, Clark gets a lot of praise for his onfield tactics, less so for his leadership.


The fact that very little experienced members of the Aussie teams he has played with have any positive things to say about him.

Simon Katich - Found his vacant personality offensive to the point of pinning up by his throat at the cost of his test career.

Matt Hayden destroyed Clarke in the press in the last tour, saying he finally needed to shoulder the responsibility for the loss and criticised his leadership.

Ricky Ponting said he did nothing to help his team as Vice Captain, and never subscribed to team ethics.

Michael Hussey a few weeks ago slated the dressing room spirit and indicated he turned his back on the team early because he no longer wanted to play in an environment that was so "insular". He also criticise the direction of captain, and said that players feared Clarke's influence with selection and couldnt relax or be themselves.... he also this week endorsed Watson as a future test captain.

Shane Watson - Everyone spends so often denying a rift its clear that Watson and Clarke hate each other.... and his "faction" were suitably punished in India when transgressing against the captain

There doesnt seem to be anyone of experience in the team that is saying a great deal good about him... those that have been around the team arent sure enough in their positions to criticise, but those former players who have influence and nothing to lose seem united in their criticism
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:23 pm

But specifically about Ponting, I don't think he was criticising Clarke's captaincy, just his attitude in a period of his career. As far as I know, he's been quite supportive of Clarke's captaincy. The Katich impasse came from that period.

Clarke is no longer a selector, even on tour, so that is no longer an issue, though the loss of that role suggests that it was. Inevitably you will get the problems you describe if the skipper is a selector, even with a liked captain.

I thought Hussey had kept quiet about any rift in the squad? As I'd expect of someone of his integrity.

It seems likely that Clarke's leadership is a shambles. But his game management is almost universally admired. In your original post on this it looked like you were criticising that as well.
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:42 pm

But specifically about Ponting, I don't think he was criticising Clarke's captaincy, just his attitude in a period of his career. As far as I know, he's been quite supportive of Clarke's captaincy. The Katich impasse came from that period.


I dont think he was questioning his attitude at the time or his captaincy.... I took Ponting's remarks as an attack on his personality and character generally. Ricky was also going to openly support his captaincy when still in the team, and with the Australian Culture pre-Ashes series to always heighten their chances and stature, its no suprise that the remarks are downplayed now and that Ponting, having had a few ex players like Marsh and Taylor give him some needle, will go back to singing the pro Aussie song with the rest of the media.... I dont look much into that, the fact he made that point in his book says it all, along with the fact Clarke attracts criticism from all but the most fragile or nice of his colleagues(Would Adam Gilchrist ever slag someone off).....
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:33 pm

I thought Hussey had kept quiet about any rift in the squad? As I'd expect of someone of his integrity.


In attempting to set the record straight and deny the rift, all he has really done is highlighted a string of childish interactions between Clarke and the team that, although falling short of pointing the finger(in fact the opposite, as Hussey's innocence means he accepts blame himself), you cant help but feel that there is a reason this is being said by him, and that the details of the story themselves underline the respect he has for Clarke.

For instance, he explains in "Katogate" that Clarke was responsible for arranging a bar for post dressing room drinks, but Hussey kept the players waiting to sing their team song all night as Clarke began to lose his temper. He claims if Clarke had mentioned the bar to him he would have sung it and they would have gne, but it appears that Clarke could not even go to speak to Hussey himself, constantly ruining the atmosphere by complaining about the time it was taking to the team manager and not getting involved with any of the festivities. He then decided to leave, having not spoken a word to Hussey, when he decided it took too long, prompting Katich to try to kill him and Clarke to go home alone straight afterwards.... Hussey for his part seems to indicate a "f**k you" attitude towards Clarke by responding to his passed on messsage to hurry up by saying every time he was asked to hurry up, he would add 15 minutes to the time he would sing the song.

He then says when he retired a boat trip was organised by the team in order to celebrate his retirement, but Hussey had told the team manager he wouldnt attend because he wanted his family to be there, but the boat selected months before was not safe enough for young children.... so he stayed with some support staff in the hotel restaurant to eat pizza as they also had children at the hotel, at which point Siddle came up to the restaurant to ask him to come along and was suprised to hear that, with it being Hussey's last game, the team management had decided to go ahead with the boat trip knowing full well that Hussey had declined to go.

He says in the morning Shane Watson spoke to him and that, while Siddle accepted that Hussey was not that offended and therefore didnt make an issue, Shane Watson become very angry that the team had gone to party rather then share a last night with one of their legendary players.... apparently the issue caused a rift between the squad afterwards, esepcially between Clarke and Watson.

Hussey also used the opportunity of Ponting's book release to certify Watsons credentials as Captain, saying that when Clarke was injured and Watson took over for one test, he had said some very good things in the dressing room.

Another thing not mentioned was Clarke overseeing a selection committee that cut Hussey's ODI career short ten games before he was due to retire.... and his last test dismissal was the result of an absolutely suicidal call from guess who, Clarke! Both sections of his career ended ungloriously with interaction from his captain.

He then finishes by slagging off the team enviornment....

"It was understandable how Mickey had his specific plans, and Michael [Clarke] too, but for me it was a big early warning sign that this team had problems ahead of it. We were fostering an environment where guys only cared about their positions and didn't think about the team. The dressing room became just as stressful and tense as [it was] out in the middle. It should be a sanctuary, where you can let go and have a joke with your team-mates. Our dressing room wasn't relaxed or calm, or conducive to good play. I didn't enjoy that tension, and I'm sure some of the guys weren't enjoying it."
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Re: Counting down to the back-to-back Ashes series in 2013/1

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:16 pm

Thanks for the info. The version of the boat trip I'm familiar with is that Hussey wanted to just stay in the dressing room with the players, but Clarke didn't think that was auspicious enough so arranged a party on son of Packer's yacht as a surprise. The retiring (in both senses) Hussey didn't want that and Clarke felt a bit put out that his efforts weren't appreciated. As I remember it.
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