Who should go forward with England?

[rich1uk]

I put those names forward without checking their domestic stats but thet are good short format players so it was an asdumption that they must be doing good domestically. If they are not in form then i would not suggest them. Pick whoever are scoring more runs or more wickets.

adi , are you actually reading my posts

domestic form becomes irrelevant for people who have been shown to be not up to the demands of international cricket

every time luke wright has been picked for England it has been after he has shown good form domestically but he has failed at international level

so why should we think that being in form domestically again would make any difference next time ?

all we end up doing is repeating the cycle and wasting an opportunity for someone who might actually make that jump

look at guys like hick and ramprakash, scored runs for fun domestically, were usually top or near the top of the domestic averages every year but they couldn't translate that domestic form to international level on a consistent basis despite many chances

[meninblue]

I put those names forward without checking their domestic stats but thet are good short format players so it was an asdumption that they must be doing good domestically. If they are not in form then i would not suggest them. Pick whoever are scoring more runs or more wickets.

adi , are you actually reading my posts

domestic form becomes irrelevant for people who have been shown to be not up to the demands of international cricket

every time luke wright has been picked for England it has been after he has shown good form domestically but he has failed at international level

so why should we think that being in form domestically again would make any difference next time ?

all we end up doing is repeating the cycle and wasting an opportunity for someone who might actually make that jump

look at guys like hick and ramprakash, scored runs for fun domestically, were usually top or near the top of the domestic averages every year but they couldn't translate that domestic form to international level on a consistent basis despite many chances

I am using mobile so cannot reply properly.

If Luke is anothrt Ravi, then how about Carberry and Vince. Are they in form domestically.If not them then who else.

[rich1uk]

comparing luke wright to ravi is a good call , except he isn't even as good as ravi

there are lots of batsmen we can be looking at james vince is one

in the rebuilding thread I put up a suggested team and I would add vince, roy and billings to that team without hesitation

[shankycricket]

"Form" is a very simplistic view to take. You can't pick teams based on who is the leading runscorer in domestic cricket in a particular season. Whilst I don't advocate picking completely raw players, who aren't ready yet but might be in 4 years' time, you still need to have a long term vision and develop a pool of 25-30 players who you will feel be around their peak at the next WC.

Guys from the Lions should be promoted. Vince, Billings and Roy spring to mind. Hales and Taylor must be given a long run and Stokes needs to be brought back. Add to it the usual suspects in Root, Buttler and Moeen and you have a fairly decent batting core.

No idea about the bowlers. Guess they need to gamble on raw talent and be a bit patient with them. The general consensus is that most of the top bowlers in domestic limited overs cricket are not quite international quality and most of the 'talented' bowlers are better with the red ball, so I'd pick guys based on raw talent and nurture them. No one is born a white ball bowler, it is upto the coaches to nurture raw talent. You can't just this guy is a FC specialist and can't be picked for one dayers. You have to develop them. Picking guys solely on domestic limited overs stats gives you bowlers like Gurney and Dernbach. Someone like Mark Wood for example, who is clearly talented and considered to be a red ball specialist and a England Test prospect should be nurtured to become a good limited overs bowler as well (whilst not losing his red ball effectiveness of course) rather than picking domestic journeymen who did well with the white ball but are not quite international quality (eg : Gurney, Dernbach).

The likes of Woakes Jordan and Finn could also become much better under a new coach.

Amongst other raw talent that could be invested in, Reece Topley and the Overton twins spring to mind.

As an aside, the 16 year old Matthew Fisher looked very, very good in the U19 WC on flat pitches in the UAE last year. How is he developing?

[rich1uk]

shanks is agreeing with me

[meninblue]

Englands case is different Shanky. Form players is short term fix.

[shankycricket]

Englands case is different Shanky. Form players is short term fix.

And thats exactly what they don't need. They need a well charted, well thought out 4 year plan with a forward vision. Looking for short term fixes is precisely why they are where they are right now. They never have the have the players ready for a World Cup campaign.

[Gingerfinch]

Most of our players seem to freeze once they get our shirt on, which suggests a problem behind the scenes rather than their ability. I still think the players we sent to the world cup were the right ones, though in hindsight, Stokes for say Ballance, or Bops may have made sense.

[rich1uk]

Englands case is different Shanky. Form players is short term fix.

but as I have shown adi with a number of examples, form at domestic level is no guarantee of success at international level

so its not just that easy

[meninblue]

Englands case is different Shanky. Form players is short term fix.

And thats exactly what they don't need. They need a well charted, well thought out 4 year plan with a forward vision. Looking for short term fixes is precisely why they are where they are right now. They never have the have the players ready for a World Cup campaign.

So even at this low they should not hold players accountable ? Then play the same out of form players for next series by leaving everything at mercy of luck and hope that they will strike form some series.To me a change is must.Make them earn place.

[Gingerfinch]

Nothing wrong with picking form players, just not ones that have been tried and failed, ala Wright.

[rich1uk]

Englands case is different Shanky. Form players is short term fix.

And thats exactly what they don't need. They need a well charted, well thought out 4 year plan with a forward vision. Looking for short term fixes is precisely why they are where they are right now. They never have the have the players ready for a World Cup campaign.

So even at this low they should not hold players accountable ? Then play the same out of form players for next series by leaving everything at mercy of luck and hope that they will strike form some series.To me a change is must.Make them earn place.

and who is saying we should keep playing the same players when they are out of form ?

yes we need to change but going back to people who have been tried before and failed is not really the sort of change I had in mind