Best Pace Bowlers.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Powelly and one other haven't voted for MM.

[Gingerfinch]

Holding still did well on that tour, I remember him bowling well at a lesser pace, like Lillee did towards the end. These are the stats from that series. I suppose it must have been about Marshall's peak. Roger Harper played in all five Tests.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Garner and Marshall stood out, like the stats suggest. Walsh toured but didn't get a test, which looking back, surprises me, as Baptiste was nothing more than an average seamer.

[Gingerfinch]

Powelly and one other haven't voted for MM.

Powelly, the Hants fan. too young to remember him?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Holding still did well on that tour, I remember him bowling well at a lesser pace, like Lillee did towards the end. These are the stats from that series. I suppose it must have been about Marshall's peak. Roger Harper played in all five Tests.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Garner and Marshall stood out, like the stats suggest. Walsh toured but didn't get a test, which looking back, surprises me, as Baptiste was nothing more than an average seamer.

No one would get the reserve keeper on that tour... Thelston Payne.

[sussexpob]

Holding still did well on that tour, I remember him bowling well at a lesser pace, like Lillee did towards the end. These are the stats from that series. I suppose it must have been about Marshall's peak. Roger Harper played in all five Tests.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=bowling

Garner and Marshall stood out, like the stats suggest. Walsh toured but didn't get a test, which looking back, surprises me, as Baptiste was nothing more than an average seamer.

No one would get the reserve keeper on that tour....

It was Thelston Payne

[Gingerfinch]

Remember the name, but would never have got it.

[rich1uk]

he was good in that film with susan Sarandon

[backfootpunch]

Steyn is the best imo

He is a lot better than his contemporise than the likes of Marshall and mcgrath were

His average and strike rate are remarkable when you consider he has played in an era with flat pitches and bigger bats

He has also done it everywhere, 90 wickets @ 22 with a Sr of 39 in Asia is amazing

The only strange thing is his record against England but he has a chance to rectify that this year

[Arthur Crabtree]

Steyn did deliver one of the most memorable balls I've ever seen against England, when he bowled Vaughan in 2004, his debut series. He was a bit raw, but he arrived looking a great bowler, with a superb action.

My work colleague was saying last night that was looking a bit like he has peaked, against NZ in the ODIs. I don't know i that is a fair comment. He's got a lot of years on the clock, but not as many miles as some of his contemporaries.

Fine ODI record too.

[backfootpunch]

Steyn did deliver one of the most memorable balls I've ever seen against England, when he bowled Vaughan in 2004, his debut series. He was a bit raw, but he arrived looking a great bowler, with a superb action.

My work colleague was saying last night that was looking a bit like he has peaked, against NZ in the ODIs. I don't know i that is a fair comment. He's got a lot of years on the clock, but not as many miles as some of his contemporaries.

Fine ODI record too.

His ODI record wasn't great for a while but over the last 3 or 4 years he has been exceptional

He has always been a better test match bowler though and ODIS are a bit of a lottery these days for bowlers

[Arthur Crabtree]

But Steyn is one of the few ODI bowlers to have survived the lottery.

[sussexpob]

I was at Benoni in November 2006 to watch South Africa A v India in a tour match. Steyn had barely played, and hadnt done well, but that night I witnessed him stroll through an Indian top order of Tendulkar, Dravid, Dhoni, Raina and Wasim Jaffer. He took 5-15/22 ish, very quick, very deadly.... it felt like you were seeing a future legend.

To assess his worth in the context of the other names mentioned though, for all everyone says that pitches have gotten worse, Steyn is a bowler from South Africa, which for much of Steyn's career was the last bastion of result wicket/seam bowler friendly wickets.

I think for everything you can say one way, there is a counter. Modern bats are bigger, but modern batsman are technically worse. Pitches are generally tamer, but there are more countries to tour nowadays, more tours, less time to adapt.

Marshall played against 4 or 5 teams, Steyn against 9. A challenge of different conditions, but then again, what would have Marshall done to Zimbabwe or Bangaldesh? What would have Steyn done in England if he played years for Hampshire? Its neither here nor there, I think you can take stats at face value.

As for contemporaries, Philander plays in the same team and in the same conditions vs same batsman... his average is very slightly lower. Mohammed Amir and Asif arguably could be where he is at now, but pissed their careers away.

Other bowlers who had good records broke down. Shane Bond, Ryan Harris, Tremlett, Pattinson.... quite a lot of star promise was lost to injury.

Probably key to note also, South Africa were the only team out of the top sides with no spinner who bowled lots of overs. Most teams threw the ball to a spinner for 30-40% of the innings, South Africa wouldnt. So the pace bowlers picked up more wickets.

[sussexpob]

I dont personally think Steyn is anywhere near as good as some of those on the list I have seen bowl. The main reason is, I think he doesnt bowl to good batsman as well as others. He feasts on the midrange and tailender. Turn up out of form, he kills, you, turn up to play and I dont think he is as good.

I had a suspicion that he has a high proportion of tailender wickets than most, so I checked the stats for him and Anderson...both just over 400 wickets over similiar time frames. Wicket distribution as follows

Openers
Anderson - 112
Steyn - 91

One drop
A - 40
S - 37

Middle order 4 -6
Anderson -119
Steyn - 102

Lower order 7 - 8
Steyn -78
Anderson - 62

Tail order 9-11
Anderson - 80
Steyn - 92

[Arthur Crabtree]

Steyn is better with an older ball, so he's going to take wickets right down the order. Indeed a new Dukes ball in England is a significant weapon.

The flat pitches were a noughties phenomenon. We're in an era of results now. A chief executive wicket is an aberration these days. Look at the reaction to the Trent Bridge wicket last year. The arms thrown up over the Lord's Ashes pitch, which didn't even threaten a draw. SL and India are exchanging results in Asia.

[Arthur Crabtree]

One factor in enjoying a pace bowler is the spectacle. Steyn scores highly on that. McGrath scores pretty low, which might be why he doesn't always get into the conversation. Lillee and Garner score high. Maybe the bowler with the greatest visual impact was Shoaib Akhtar, though his stats kept him out of this list.