England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Cast Your Vote!

Pick two England ODI openers.

Ian Bell
1
4%
Nick Knight
0
No votes
Graham Gooch
6
25%
Chris Broad
0
No votes
Alex Hales
4
17%
Andrew Strauss
1
4%
Jason Roy
1
4%
Marcus Trescothick
9
38%
Alastair Cook
0
No votes
Alec Stewart
0
No votes
Johnny Bairstow
1
4%
Dennis Amiss
1
4%
Moeen Ali
0
No votes
Ian Botham
0
No votes
Craig Kieswetter
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 24

England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:52 pm

After an ODI win, chances are that the UK press will announce that the present England side is their best ever. Though they haven't been to a WC final yet, as a few of their predecessors did. Or without facing the four WI fast bowlers of the late seventies with a new red ball. And ignoring many other variables.

They do feel the best side. Or have they just got their publicity down cold? They aren't even number one in the rankings, which was briefly true of an Andy Flower XI.

This preamble leads me to wonder how many of the present side would get into an all time England ODI XI? And to entreat the wise CMS members to cast a vote for the best in each category, starting with the openers.

Revoting is permitted. After a week I'll move onto the next discipline.
Last edited by Arthur Crabtree on Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:56 pm

Bell is England's highest scoring opener by the way.

Roy has the highest score and the only SR over 100 of anyone with over 500 runs (as opener).

Tresco has the most tons, by a long way.

Nick Knight is the worst commentator.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Adi » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:14 am

Alex Hales: Avg 36 @ SR 95. High scores: 171.

Jason: Avg 38 @ SR 105. High Scores: 180, 162.

Jonny: Avg 46 @ SR 92. High scores: None above 150

Out of those 3, i would have Jason and Jonny as openers.

With Jason, there are hopes that one day he will score a double ton in ODI. And even if that double ton does not materialize, he gives hopes of putting a 350 target. At least he will score few more 150+ or 175+ knocks if not 200. Also in case England are chasing 350 or 400, they have some hopes with Jason in playing 11 at top of the order. Like Sachin, Sehwag, Guptill and rohit who all ahve 200 + in ODI, England should look to develop one player capable of those 200+ scores, and imo Jason is the only one with 2 scores of 150+. Probably the only England player to do so in ODI history and he has done it in just 52 innings. Averaging just 2 runs more than Alex, but that is not saying much regarding the average. However, his SR brings respectability to the average and SR combo along with other benefits as compared to other options.

Alex as a fielder does not gives me much confidence either. I have seen him drop few very easy catches. Bad average for an opener. An opener should average above 40 at atleast in modern day cricket considering they are specialist batsmen. Neither does the SR of 95 justifies the average of 36. And when there are two higher averaging batsmen than him, why to opt for the lower average batsman.


I have Jason in my opening list. Given his positives, i do think he is very inconsistent. His inconsistency has been seen in the recent ODi series, the Big Bash, the IPL. There will be one brilliant innings in series, but then he is likely to totally flop in others. His opening partner therefore needs to be more consistent and a better average. And Jonny with average of 45 is the only option who has a good combo of average and SR. rather than playing one match winning knock. Don't think any England opener has ever averaged 45 before. With a good avg & SR combo which justifies his place in squad as a specialist batsman alone, he also gives England think tank to balance a team being up the wicket-keeper batsman.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:33 am

Bairstow has started well, but he's hardly got much of a record, especially as an opener. I went for Tres, and couldn't decide between Roy and Hales, but went for the former because of the latter's fielding.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Gingerfinch » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:14 am

Gooch
Trescothick
.........
.........
.........

Hales and/or Roy may come into contention but too early to tell.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:44 pm

Put your vote in there Ginger.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:48 pm

These are the stats for all England openers with over 800 runs.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Note Boycott's SR of 53!
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby andy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Hales and Tres
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Durhamfootman » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:06 pm

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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Note Boycott's SR of 53!


He has the excuse of playing when ODI was a recent invention...... an excuse that becomes a non-starter for Atherton in the 90s. How the frigging hell did he play nearly 50 ODIs with a SR of 59?
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:52 pm

True. Athers' record demands explanation.

Wonder who he was keeping out the side.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:56 pm

I feel myself looking back at Nick Knight as being a solid opener for England, a person who was key to his team as any England batsman. Yet, his SR wasnt great. Is that because SR's have become so inflated in the modern era, or is it simply he wasnt quick? So, I go to another left hander, Saeed Anwar, who was a similar style of player and certainly a guy who batted quick for his time in the 90s, and find Knight is nowhere near. Looking further, I see that Knight's career drifts into the 2000s at a whimper; yeah, his averages are still good, but he dips in batting speed as the Gilchrists and Sehwags of this world start winning matches. The high 60s arent cutting it in this era, he seems to be a player who is hiding behind an average to maintain his position in the side.

Similarly, what to make of Tresco? A great batter in English conditions, but was he as reliable elsewhere? I might be wrong, but I find myself solely remembering that Indian tour in 2002 when Freddie ripped his shirt off, and we drew 3-3. That was a crap Indian team he did well against, a soon to be retired and well past it Srinath, Agit, Ganguly and Tendulkar combining for 10 overs. Is this an attack to rate a man against? I also have a tendency with Tresco to think he plundered rubbish teams, often at home. He must have a good average vs Windies. He made his name scoring runs vs Zimbabwe in 2000 (or was it 1999? ), at the very beginning of the dismantling of Zimbabwe cricket. Didnt he also score runs away to them in 2002? I cant rememebr an innings v Australia. Or an innings v South Africa. Or any half decent side after India away in 2002. He seemed at times to be a passenger. Is Tresco worthy on the basis he played in such a shabby outfit?

Yet, I cant ignore him. So its him and Roy.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby sussexpob » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:True. Athers' record demands explanation.

Wonder who he was keeping out the side.


If he had lived in a modern era, then Ali Brown would have played 100 times plus for England, and would have done himself justice.

Its quite staggering he lived through an era where Athers got 40 more caps than him.
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Re: England All Time ODI XI- the openers.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Tres averaged under nine v NZ which is a bit of an outlier.

England weren't that good in ODIs back then of course. There is a chance we remember stand out players in bad teams and rate them too highly because of that. Maybe Knight falls into that category too. Yet Tres middled the ball a long way and manufactured shots well too by moving around the crease. He swept and hooked very adeptly. Players back then were often guilty of not rotating the strike as well as they might. Certainly England players. And Tres wasn't that fast at running...
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