England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Cast Your Vote!

Pick three England bats from 3-5.

Ben Stokes
2
6%
Andrew Flintoff
0
No votes
Eoin Morgan
1
3%
Kevin Pietersen
9
27%
Joe Root
9
27%
Ian Botham
0
No votes
Jonathan Trott
3
9%
David Gower
1
3%
Alan Lamb
0
No votes
Paul Collingwood
5
15%
Neil Fairbrother
1
3%
Graeme Hick
1
3%
Graham Thorpe
1
3%
Mike Gatting
0
No votes
Robin Smith
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 33

Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 pm

Freddie will probably get in either as all rounder or bowler and he could bat in the top six. Just on bowling, he must be one of the top three England pace bowlers.

The keeper options in ODIs will probably be top order bats.

I thought Hick batted at three in ODIs. Might be misremembering though. I remember the SL coach going into the 1996 WC saying Hick and Fairbro' were the only England players that would get in the SL side... The English press was dumbfounded... and then SL took the WC by storm and thrashed England along the way.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Hick batted 58 times at three, 45 times at four, and seven and under for other spots. I guess Fairbro would have been 5 or 6 at that time. Smith might have been in the side. And Stewart.

Starting to look decent...
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 pm

This is the scorecard for England v SL in 1996. Cavalry vs tanks.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8039 ... p-1995-96/
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Gingerfinch » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Freddie will probably get in either as all rounder or bowler and he could bat in the top six. Just on bowling, he must be one of the top three England pace bowlers.

The keeper options in ODIs will probably be top order bats.

I thought Hick batted at three in ODIs. Might be misremembering though. I remember the SL coach going into the 1996 WC saying Hick and Fairbro' were the only England players that would get in the SL side... The English press was dumbfounded... and then SL took the WC by storm and thrashed England along the way.


Hick was mainly three, but I remember him scoring a quickfire fifty or two against Pakistan, coming in at six or seven.

Also in my team, Root would be three.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:44 pm

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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:01 am

Hope we'll get more votes, but as we stand-

Gooch/Trescothick/Trott/Root/Pietersen

we've got three members of noughties era teams and one from the present. No brave new world there.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Gingerfinch » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:24 am

Roy and Hales may have my vote in a few years time, but it's way too early to pick them.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:03 am

Got a feeling they're splitting one type of vote.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:13 am

Gingerfinch wrote:Roy and Hales may have my vote in a few years time, but it's way too early to pick them.


They've played about 50 ODIs each as opener. Hales made his debut four years ago and Roy, three. Hales' five tons can only be bettered by Tres and GG among England openers (v top 8 sides) even though he's played a lot fewer games than most of the other options.

Hales being displaced as England opener isn't a good omen for an all time spot, but he has a far better record at the top than at three. I guess he'll be out the side once Root is back too.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:58 pm

Surprised no one gave Gower a vote, on his day he be as destructive as anyone. I remember him smashing Hadlee for some big sixes in the World Series at the end of the 82 season.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:10 am

Good fielder in his early days too.

Lamb tends to be remembered more as an ODI bat now, I think mainly for that knock in Sydney.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby alfie » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:17 am

Lot of decent options here : I went KP , Root and Collingwood- I want his fielding !

A few others might get in as all rounders yet...
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby sussexpob » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:47 am

KP and Root stroll right in, unsurprisingly. Assessing the others.....

Ben Stokes - Too early.
Flintoff - Will be in this team no doubt, but at 6/7
Botham - Again, he may make the team further down
Gower - Historical SR is impressive, but I cant make a compelling argument for a player before my time
Lamb - See Gower. On stats alone, he looks impressive for his time.
Robin Smith - SR in the 60s in the 1990s not cutting it
Mike Gatting - Why is he even listed on here?
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby sussexpob » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:00 pm

Not going to be a popular analysis, but....

Collingwood was hugely over-rated. His averages look very basic when we start removing performances vs non-test teams, where he hits quick runs at good averages. Against test teams, hes cutting a low 70s SR in the 2000-10s, which lets be frank, isnt putting him in a decent team that many times. Average is low 30s. He was the classic finisher, just a shame for England he was in the mould of Michael Bevan and not Buttler, ie stuck in the previous generation of tactics. He'd get nowhere near the team now. Just like in tests, it seems Collingwood has innings that stick out that adapt peoples memory. Consistently he just wasnt a good enough bat. Bowling added something, and an excellent fielder, but this isnt enough in ODIs to put you in a top 5 position.

Trott - Great average. Id hesitate to say this was because most opponents didnt want to remove him, because his endless batting usually damaged England's chances of winning. Trott was rubbish, an anchor man in an era where anchormen had been replaced by the Kohli's of this world. England got rid of him and became instantly better.

Im going for Morgan. Hes lightyears a better player than the other two. While Trott meandered around batting like a granny doing her shopping, who do you think was left to win the game with the rate climbing like Everest coming in after? Morgan.

A couple of stats are telling on this. When Morgan plays and England win, he averages 45 and SR at 95. When England lose this average dips into the 20s and SR80. It shows that Morgan's performance really seems to matter for England, and always has. He was the lifeguard in that team of Strauss, Bell, Trott et al...... they munched through 30 overs, then Morgan came on. He didnt bat well, England lost.

Average of 38 and SR near 90...... for a person often relegated or required to be a late order hitter, thats fantastic. Hes had lean periods, but everyone does. At his best, he was as exciting and brutal as any batsman England have had, inventive and talented.

Very surprised how little respect he gets from England fans.
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Re: England all time ODI XI- batters from 3-5.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:53 pm

alfie wrote:Lot of decent options here : I went KP , Root and Collingwood- I want his fielding !



We agree!
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