The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[ddb]

Well, no and I accept all parties have acted like children at times but Flower is the boss and the ECB are above him. The truth is, KP has not for the first time, acted with petulance and IMO and has been rightly punished and I admire Flower for taking a stance.

And I'm sort of glad Flower wasn't swayed by India. And surprised there haven't been more questions for him or the ECB by the rags.

But he refused to admit he communicated with Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers, even though sleuths at the ECB believe they have proof of their existence.

SA have said it's not Steyn or AB.

[hopeforthebest]

the John Etheridge column:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... sorry.html

[sussexpob]

However, the assumption must be that the ECB have acted in the long term best interests of English cricket and such strong condemnation may be unfair.

It is my belief, judging on actions of the ECB for a while, that interest of cricket are being overtaken by interest of money and personal power.... that is my opinion, one that I have explained in length in this thread(and others).

If the interests of the English game are to play teams without a full squad, without your best squad, then I must have woke up in neverland..... I am not going to watch another sport I love try and sell me a compromised level of entertainment dressed up as normal competition.

Its a joke to tell me that the ECB are protecting the sport.... if they had any intention to do such they wouldnt schedule to play matches when they know the opposition team will be without half their world class players. Its about money and nothing else. Dont kid yourself its any different.

You personal reasons for disliking pietersen or not supporting his selection can be down to anything, but if the ECB are touting protection of the game then they need to look at what they are doing to the game before judging anyone else....

[Gingerfinch]

Well, no and I accept all parties have acted like children at times but Flower is the boss and the ECB are above him. The truth is, KP has not for the first time, acted with petulance and IMO and has been rightly punished and I admire Flower for taking a stance.

And I'm sort of glad Flower wasn't swayed by India. And surprised there haven't been more questions for him or the ECB by the rags.

But he refused to admit he communicated with Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers, even though sleuths at the ECB believe they have proof of their existence.

SA have said it's not Steyn or AB.

Swayed by India?

[D/L]

However, the assumption must be that the ECB have acted in the long term best interests of English cricket and such strong condemnation may be unfair.

It is my belief, judging on actions of the ECB for a while, that interest of cricket are being overtaken by interest of money and personal power.... that is my opinion, one that I have explained in length in this thread(and others).

If the interests of the English game are to play teams without a full squad, without your best squad, then I must have woke up in neverland..... I am not going to watch another sport I love try and sell me a compromised level of entertainment dressed up as normal competition.

Its a joke to tell me that the ECB are protecting the sport.... if they had any intention to do such they wouldnt schedule to play matches when they know the opposition team will be without half their world class players. Its about money and nothing else. Dont kid yourself its any different.

You personal reasons for disliking pietersen or not supporting his selection can be down to anything, but if the ECB are touting protection of the game then they need to look at what they are doing to the game before judging anyone else....

Of course it is the money that ultimately motivates the ECB. Only a fool would deny that. I, however, am allowing for the possibility that the allegations against Pietersen, which he has not denied nor apologised for, were so serious (we have seen allegations of the nature of insults used against other team members) as to make, without a full apology, his playing in the 3rd test impossible.

It seems strange to apparently not allow for this possibility at all.

[D/L]

...You personal reasons for disliking pietersen or not supporting his selection can be down to anything...

One can have no personal reasons for disliking someone one doesn’t know. However, one can dislike the actions of that person.

To attribute personal dislike to my criticism is really rather clumsy and not a little crass.

[ddb]

Well, no and I accept all parties have acted like children at times but Flower is the boss and the ECB are above him. The truth is, KP has not for the first time, acted with petulance and IMO and has been rightly punished and I admire Flower for taking a stance.

And I'm sort of glad Flower wasn't swayed by India. And surprised there haven't been more questions for him or the ECB by the rags.

But he refused to admit he communicated with Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers, even though sleuths at the ECB believe they have proof of their existence.

SA have said it's not Steyn or AB.

Swayed by India?

Was reported to be in the running for India coach after Kirsten left.

[Gingerfinch]

Well, no and I accept all parties have acted like children at times but Flower is the boss and the ECB are above him. The truth is, KP has not for the first time, acted with petulance and IMO and has been rightly punished and I admire Flower for taking a stance.

And I'm sort of glad Flower wasn't swayed by India. And surprised there haven't been more questions for him or the ECB by the rags.

But he refused to admit he communicated with Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers, even though sleuths at the ECB believe they have proof of their existence.

SA have said it's not Steyn or AB.

Swayed by India?

Was reported to be in the running for India coach after Kirsten left.

Never knew that!

[sussexpob]

...You personal reasons for disliking pietersen or not supporting his selection can be down to anything...

One can have no personal reasons for disliking someone one doesn’t know. However, one can dislike the actions of that person.

To attribute personal dislike to my criticism is really rather clumsy and not a little crass.

It was a general comment D/L. I dont doubt that many people in the press have ever got past the fact that KP was a South African with no affliation to England other than a desire to play for "someone", and I would say judging on some of the horrendous comments I have seen in the past about his nationality, this is reflected a great deal in the criticism he recieves... not from you, I stress, generally.

Of course it is the money that ultimately motivates the ECB. Only a fool would deny that. I, however, am allowing for the possibility that the allegations against Pietersen, which he has not denied nor apologised for, were so serious (we have seen allegations of the nature of insults used against other team members) as to make, without a full apology, his playing in the 3rd test impossible.

It seems strange to apparently not allow for this possibility at all.

Again I interpret this differently... the ECB, imo, are harshly going after anyone who compromises their revenue incomes by going to a competitor...its about setting precedents for the future and the harshness they have employed speaks volumes of how paranoid they are about IPL. They have a reason to be, but this isnt the way to do it!

[Alviro Patterson]

So what Swann said (doubted KPs captaincy qualities), when both of them are teammates, still playing basically shows that he doesnt consider KP too highly.

Similarly, KP texts some unflattering things about Strauss, when both of them are teammates, still playing together.
Dont see the difference basically.

Or should he have said - "Strauss is a poor captain, out of form batsman but a great bloke to go out for a drink with"
Its the truth after all... and he would have said something good about him...

And what about Samit Patel? Its ok to say those things about him?

Graeme Swann criticised KPs leadership nearly 3 years after the change of captaincy and coach, also criticised Samit Patel after his fitness issues became public knowledge and what he had to do to get back into the England team.

KP criticised Strauss and Flower whilst they are still currently captain and coach, thus undermining the England setup.

[ddb]

http://www.cricket.co.za/news_article.a ... n=news_all

The Proteas' Team Manager, Dr Mohammed Moosajee today released the following statement reaffirming the team’s stance on the issue involving Kevin Pietersen and the England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB).

The statement reads as follows:

There have been untruthful allegations in the media implicating members of our squad in the current issue between Kevin Pietersen and the ECB. We stand by the same stance we have taken since we heard news about the allegations.

Text messages were sent, but like we said before it was banter amongst team mates, which we feel is perfectly acceptable.

The ECB has not made a formal approach to myself (Dr Mohammed Moosajee) or any member of the team to see the text messages as is currently being reported in the media.

Allegations that Dale Steyn and AB de Villiers were the recipients of the texts are unfounded, and until such time that the allegations are met with the correct facts and evidence, we shall not comment.

This internal issue between Kevin Pietersen and the ECB has been publicised for weeks even before we even arrived in the UK, and we do not want to get ourselves involved in an issue that has nothing to do with us.

This is the last time that management or the players will comment on the issue and our focus moving on is the team’s preparation and how we plan to go about winning the next Test match at Lord’s.

[Dilbert]

So what Swann said (doubted KPs captaincy qualities), when both of them are teammates, still playing basically shows that he doesnt consider KP too highly.

Similarly, KP texts some unflattering things about Strauss, when both of them are teammates, still playing together.
Dont see the difference basically.

Or should he have said - "Strauss is a poor captain, out of form batsman but a great bloke to go out for a drink with"
Its the truth after all... and he would have said something good about him...

And what about Samit Patel? Its ok to say those things about him?

Graeme Swann criticised KPs leadership nearly 3 years after the change of captaincy and coach, also criticised Samit Patel after his fitness issues became public knowledge and what he had to do to get back into the England team.

KP criticised Strauss and Flower whilst they are still currently captain and coach, thus undermining the England setup.

I thought the issue was criticism, not the time gone by
Wasnt KP still in the team when it happened? As a human being, he would be equally affected by that action of Swann, as Flower/Strauss are currently. Samit Patel would be equally offended and I think he still has a chance of getting in the team. So now if / when he does make it to the team, there already is atleast 1 player he wont get along with.

Totally unprofessional by Swann and ECB (by ignoring his actions).

[hopeforthebest]

KP's value to sponsers and Advertisers is primarily athough not exclusively dependant upon playing for England, he needs England more than he's willing to accept.

[D/L]

The Swann thing is a complete red herring.

[hopeforthebest]

The Swann thing is a complete red herring.

They are desperate coz it's 'sink or Swann' for them.