Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

Making_Splinters wrote:At the end of the day, there is a simple point to be made. If the best Irish cricket can independently support is a competition between three sides - largely made up of imports by the way - then there is no conceivable way they can support a test side.

People have to look beyond the performance of the Irish team, which is largely nothing to do with Irish cricket, and ask is there any foundations of a Test nation in Ireland. The answer is no.

That should be the end of the matter.

This might well be the case at present. But surely the goal should be to encourage cricket in Ireland and for there to be a competitive domestic set up. Starting with 3 teams is a start, and in coming years the goal should be to increase this. Get it up to 5 and then maybe it can be like the Sheffield shield in Aus? 2020 is to soon for a Irish test team, but why not in the next 15 years if they can develop a good domestic competition?

Cricket should be applauding the success of smaller teams and using that success as a way to grow the sport.

SaintPowelly wrote:What Ireland need is more ODI games against top 8 sides, the best way to achieve it is to add them to random ODI series and make them tri-series.

Currently they will get 1 ODI against Aus when they tour here and thats about it. Random series like NZ-SL or Pak-WI could easily incorporate Ireland

that's kinda what I was getting at in the other thread about having more opportunities to play against better opposition

on the match commentary the other night, doing this from memory so might not be 100%, they said that since the last world cup Ireland had only played a total of 26 ODIs, of them only 9 were against full members and only 1 was outside of the british isles. I haven't checked those numbers so someone can correct me if I have got them wrong.

I don't see why it would be so hard to do what powelly is suggesting and have the occasional tri-series with teams like Ireland and Afghanistan invited. teams play so many relatively meaningless ODIs in bi-lateral series, when we do get a tri-series like in Australia it feels a bit more meaningful.

Ireland don't need more ODIs, that won't solve anything.

The fundamental problem with Irish cricket is that they do not have the infrastructure to support a Test side. The top Irish cricketers have little to do with Irish cricket aside from representation and untill either the ICC or Irish Cricket comes up with a solution to that, this debate is nothing more than a red herring.

Just give them a go. What's the harm?

yuppie wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:At the end of the day, there is a simple point to be made. If the best Irish cricket can independently support is a competition between three sides - largely made up of imports by the way - then there is no conceivable way they can support a test side.

People have to look beyond the performance of the Irish team, which is largely nothing to do with Irish cricket, and ask is there any foundations of a Test nation in Ireland. The answer is no.

That should be the end of the matter.

This might well be the case at present. But surely the goal should be to encourage cricket in Ireland and for there to be a competitive domestic set up. Starting with 3 teams is a start, and in coming years the goal should be to increase this. Get it up to 5 and then maybe it can be like the Sheffield shield in Aus? 2020 is to soon for a Irish test team, but why not in the next 15 years if they can develop a good domestic competition?

Cricket should be applauding the success of smaller teams and using that success as a way to grow the sport.

The ICC has invested a substancial amount of money into promoting Irish domestic cricket, with little return to date.

Why should Ireland be a special case? Their performance is based on English cricket not Irish cricket.

Surely money would be better invested in countries that have proven they can develop and sustain wide interest at grass roots level in cricket rather than throwing it at a country who have yet to show they can even manage that.

Making_Splinters wrote:Ireland don't need more ODIs, that won't solve anything.

The fundamental problem with Irish cricket is that they do not have the infrastructure to support a Test side. The top Irish cricketers have little to do with Irish cricket aside from representation and untill either the ICC or Irish Cricket comes up with a solution to that, this debate is nothing more than a red herring.

no-one is arguing with that second paragraph , no-one here anyway

Ireland seem to think they need more ODIs and surely its all about baby steps , haven't they done enough to merit more ODI series and higher profile games outside of a world cup ?

rich1uk wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:Ireland don't need more ODIs, that won't solve anything.

The fundamental problem with Irish cricket is that they do not have the infrastructure to support a Test side. The top Irish cricketers have little to do with Irish cricket aside from representation and untill either the ICC or Irish Cricket comes up with a solution to that, this debate is nothing more than a red herring.

no-one is arguing with that second paragraph , no-one here anyway

Ireland seem to think they need more ODIs and surely its all about baby steps , haven't they done enough to merit more ODI series and higher profile games outside of a world cup ?

There could be an argument made that an increased amount of ODIs would increase domestic interest in the game.

I don't think Irish cricket has done anything. The Irish qualified players who have been trained and managed in other countries have done a pretty good job.

Making_Splinters wrote:Ireland don't need more ODIs, that won't solve anything.

The fundamental problem with Irish cricket is that they do not have the infrastructure to support a Test side. The top Irish cricketers have little to do with Irish cricket aside from representation and untill either the ICC or Irish Cricket comes up with a solution to that, this debate is nothing more than a red herring.

But they are doing something about that, you have stated that they have started a domestic league in the last 2 years. Its only 3 teams but it is a start, and its building on the success the national team is having. That success will grow interest in the sport in Ireland which will lead to more people playing which will lead to more players, and so forth. 3 teams becomes 4 teams, then 5 and then you have a strong set up. The Australian team is only picked from 6 teams and they seem to play cricket alright.

Making_Splinters wrote:

yuppie wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:At the end of the day, there is a simple point to be made. If the best Irish cricket can independently support is a competition between three sides - largely made up of imports by the way - then there is no conceivable way they can support a test side.

People have to look beyond the performance of the Irish team, which is largely nothing to do with Irish cricket, and ask is there any foundations of a Test nation in Ireland. The answer is no.

That should be the end of the matter.

This might well be the case at present. But surely the goal should be to encourage cricket in Ireland and for there to be a competitive domestic set up. Starting with 3 teams is a start, and in coming years the goal should be to increase this. Get it up to 5 and then maybe it can be like the Sheffield shield in Aus? 2020 is to soon for a Irish test team, but why not in the next 15 years if they can develop a good domestic competition?

Cricket should be applauding the success of smaller teams and using that success as a way to grow the sport.

The ICC has invested a substancial amount of money into promoting Irish domestic cricket, with little return to date.

Why should Ireland be a special case? Their performance is based on English cricket not Irish cricket.

Surely money would be better invested in countries that have proven they can develop and sustain wide interest at grass roots level in cricket rather than throwing it at a country who have yet to show they can even manage that.

What time frame should we look at though? Ireland have only had very recent success, so to expect a sudden improvement in the domestic set up is perhaps unfair. This discussion in 10 years with no development would be valid. But Ireland have only really been going for 7-10 years at international level with any level of success. The cricketing world should be trying to build on this success, not squash it.

Ireland doing well at World Cups is a good thing for the game of cricket if it leads to the growth of this game we all love.

My personal view on this issue is that I like the idea of Ireland becoming a Test nation, and eventually, for other Associate nations to eventually follow suit. However, I also believe that Test cricket as we currently know it is in trouble, and the powers that be (Australia, England & India), need to decide what direction they want to take the game. It seems to me that the emergence of the T20 format is seeing a gradual shift away from the traditional form of the game. Sadly, I can see the day when fewer teams play Test cricket rather than more. It also seems to me that the only Test series that makes any real money these days is the Ashes, and as much as I would love nothing more than smashing the Poms on an annual basis, this just isn't good for the game.

As I've documented before, the way forward as I see it, is to scrap the concept of multi-match Test series' and move toward a league structure, where everyone plays each other once during the course of the calender year. In an age of professionalism where our teams fly all over the world for various competitions and the like, tours could last all of three weeks; a couple of ODI's, a couple of T20I's, and a Test match... and a champion crowned at the end of each year in each format, ridding our game of the stupid rankings system we currently tolerate. With such a system, the likes of Ireland and Afghanistan could be added to Test ranks, with promotion and relegation (every two years), to the Associate ranks. I reckon this could work.

Should the current system continue, where some teams lay more than others, I don't see how any other team could come into the Test family, and indeed, those playing fewer matches would eventually probably pull out. Indeed, it seems to me that we are heading for an age where the only Test teams will be; Australia, England, India, and possibly a Rest of the World team.

This > https://twitter.com/edjoyce24/status/567823647445114881

dan08 wrote:This > https://twitter.com/edjoyce24/status/567823647445114881

Ed clearly never watches any football matches involving San Marino...

they need to implement a two division test system with one promotion/relegation every cycle

force teams to play every other nation home and away in a tests series of at least 3 matches in that cycle

then at the end of the cycle the team at the top of div 2 goes into div 1, the bottom team in div 1 goes into div 2

then the team that was second top plays the team that was second bottom in a play off match

dan08 wrote:This > https://twitter.com/edjoyce24/status/567823647445114881

Disagree on two fronts:

1) Test cricket needs to be competitive, it's hard enough already trying to attract crowds to watch tests against Bangladesh, who would watch a one sided match between a top test nation and the Netherlands?

2) Test nations have to be sustainable based on a domestic structure. You can't have Test nations incapable of producing players to play Test cricket.

After the World Cup, give it two months and the entire argument over Ireland playing Test cricket will be chip paper.

I'm not in favour of Ireland getting Test status but my problem is with the inconsistency. If Bangladesh have Test status (I don't think they should, either) then why not Ireland? Though I take the point that two wrongs don't make a right. Personally don't think either should have Test status but if they do, it has to be in a two tier structure. Not sure how that would work tbh.


As an aside, what if the West Indies crumble completely and split into their respective island nations? Would any of the islands warrant Test status?