Rebuilding for the next World Cup.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Saker has a job with the Melbourne Renegades (T20), so he won't be rebuilding for the next WC.

[Aidan11]

We need to get someone in straight away.

The smart money is on Ottis.

[rich1uk]

not dismissing ottis here but is it the default position of the ECB every time there is a spot available to see which ex-player or ex-employee we can bring back ?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Didn't England have a poor time with Gibson last time? Also Shine, who still has a coaching job at the ECB.

[Durhamfootman]

Saker has a job with the Melbourne Renegades (T20), so he won't be rebuilding for the next WC.

he'll be a miss

I wonder if he can find a job for Kevin Shine too?

While we're on, I wonder if Zimbabwe are thinking of rebuilding too?
I might know a chap, you see!

[KipperJohn]

I think it's just plain daft to contemplate the next WC when this one hasn't even finished - in any case is that the sole aim of our ODI cricket participation?

We don't even know whether the current management structure will survive at present - Saker we know is going but what about yhe likes of Moores, Whittacker, Downton etc?

The big decisions which shape the future start at the top - lets see what Graves does. Getting the right management, selectors and coach and appropriate domestic competitions in place are the most important decisions - we can sit here picking as many teams as we like, but if the ECB continue to cock things up like they have been English ODI cricket, not to mention the rest - is going nowhere fast.

I wrote before that the wagons are circling - if that's the case and the present regime continues on its bumbling way - and that includes the inner circles as well - then I'm not very hopeful.

[Making_Splinters]

As I've said many times, Kipper, the only thing that's daft is refusing to plan for the next World Cup and expecting a different result to how the last few have turned out.

If you look at England's major weaknesses: A lack of strength and depth, A lack of experiance, A lack of a plan B, all of them are down to a lack of long term planning.

[sussexpob]

If you look at England's major weaknesses: A lack of strength and depth, A lack of experiance, A lack of a plan B, all of them are down to a lack of long term planning.

Arguably the favourite for the World Cup coming in, Australia's team....

Warner - Picked several years ago on the back of T20 potential, was dropped long before the 2011 world cupm, came back, was dropped in 2013, only really came back into the team once his test form took a turn for the good after the last Ashes series.
Finch - Wasnt on the radar until 2013, was going to be dropped until a ODI 100 vs Scotland, and then backed up with the T20 record a week later late in 2013.
Shane Watson - Was there all along
Steve Smith - Hardly played an ODI in 4-5 years until the Sharjah match last October
Glenn Maxwell - In and out the team until the 300 plus fest series in India in 2014
Mitch Marsh - Hardly played until this Aussie Summer
Mitchell Johnson - After the 2011 world cup he was used sparingly and seemed Australia had turned their back on him
Brad Haddin - Australia hardly thought he would last this long, he has been dropped but wasn't adequately replaced by Wade, and came back.
Pat Cummins - 12 ODI's
James Faulkner - Capped in 2013 after successful T20 start


Where are these long term picks after 2011?

[Making_Splinters]

I'm getting rather tired of saying that planning is not the same as picking some players next week and saying that's the team that will play in four years time.

[sussexpob]

I'm getting rather tired of saying that planning is not the same as picking some players next week and saying that's the team that will play in four years time.

Australia's first ODI after WC2011 included.....

Brad Haddin opening, he was 34
Ricky Ponting at 3.... he was 36
Mike Hussey.... 35
Brett Lee.... 34 and clearly on decline

What were they planning to do, borrow Doc Brown's time machine?

[sussexpob]

In fact, apart from Watson, Haddin (dropped down 7 places in the batting order), Smith (who was a spinner and late order batsman, to specialist number 4, which was only apparent he could do recently) and Clarke (who is probably not good enough for the team), no one in that squad is still around.

Australia didnt have a clue what to do in 2011, what they did do is pick players of a certain mould, and that has worked with the times.

[Making_Splinters]

I do not understand why some on here are determined to try and make out that England planning for the next World Cup obligates selecting a side for the next ODI and believing that that will be the side that England takes to the next World Cup.

I do not think that anyone has stated such a case, which is why I find it baffling that some want to argue against a point no one is making.

Planning means having a goal of where we want to be in four years time and working out the steps we need to go through to get there. Nothing more, nothing less.

[KipperJohn]

As I've said many times, Kipper, the only thing that's daft is refusing to plan for the next World Cup and expecting a different result to how the last few have turned out.

If you look at England's major weaknesses: A lack of strength and depth, A lack of experiance, A lack of a plan B, all of them are down to a lack of long term planning.

What's the point of 'planning' if you have the wrong people in place doing it?

One can only take this step by step - one ambition might be to put together a squad which can actually start winning a few games, then perhaps a series - against serious opposition. You cant' possibly look much further than that at the present time, particularly as it should be done alongside a proper structuring of our domestic game which meets the needs of the national side, as well as providing competition that will satisfy county cricket supporters.

It's a huge challenge which, quite frankly, seems beyond the present incumbents abilities- given events over the last couple of years.

The WC in four years time is just an important milestone and only one team can win it. Putting out a competitive and exciting team would be a significant achievement - that's all a few of the other countries have really achieved at this stage.

I await the 'fall out' from the WC - if it's anything like after the Ashes I despair.

[Making_Splinters]

As I've said many times, Kipper, the only thing that's daft is refusing to plan for the next World Cup and expecting a different result to how the last few have turned out.

If you look at England's major weaknesses: A lack of strength and depth, A lack of experiance, A lack of a plan B, all of them are down to a lack of long term planning.

What's the point of 'planning' if you have the wrong people in place doing it?

One can only take this step by step - one ambition might be to put together a squad which can actually start winning a few games, then perhaps a series - against serious opposition. You cant' possibly look much further than that at the present time, particularly as it should be done alongside a proper structuring of our domestic game which meets the needs of the national side, as well as providing competition that will satisfy county cricket supporters.

It's a huge challenge which, quite frankly, seems beyond the present incumbents abilities- given events over the last couple of years.

The WC in four years time is just an important milestone and only one team can win it. Putting out a competitive and exciting team would be a significant achievement - that's all a few of the other countries have really achieved at this stage.

I actually, and this somewhat took me by suprise, don't think that it hugely matters who's at the top for the necessary steps to be taken. Even the great dragon himself recognised that England's lack of a pool of internationally experianced players was a weakness that needed fixing.

While my responce to Moores and Downton getting the axe would be on a par with a Pity Me miner's responce to the death of Thatcher, I do think the dolce farce that was England's World Cup should be enough to rouse any sleeping beast.

[sussexpob]

Planning means having a goal of where we want to be in four years time and working out the steps we need to go through to get there. Nothing more, nothing less.

Planning sounds a lot like Flower.... it sounds a lot like Mung Bean Curry Recipes and "lets get 40 from the first 10 overs"..... planning sounds a lot like "made by analysis of data".

I dont think you can say England havent planned, its just that they have become so entrenched in planning and what not that they have breed a generation of cricketers that cant think on their feet, or dont play to any match situation. So much thought dedicated to the ins and outs, so much planning, not enough "you know, just hit the thing". Our best player goes out and expresses himself, no surprise there.

My example of Australia shows just how uncomplicated things can be. Pick guys on form, tell them to play......in 2011 Australia hadnt a clue what their side would be, but they picked people who looked to have some useful attributes.

England on the other hand had the best T20 batter in the world and couldnt pick him because his county form wasnt good enough

Tear up the bloody books on planning, burn them, pick 11 guys and tell them to go smash it