The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[D/L]

OK, M_S, let’s consider the scenario (heaven forfend) of Captain Cook and the top brass at the ECB deciding that Pietersen will be invited to return to the team and Pietersen agreeing.

Before any such decision, would you really have expected to Swann to say something along the lines of, “Well, I won’t be playing alongside him again”, and spending the remaining years of his career in the international wilderness when Pietersen returned?

Swann said pretty much what one would expect from anyone with an ounce of intelligence and a concern for his livelihood. Any sincerity behind the words wouldn’t be taken for granted by anyone taking other than a superficial, or perhaps rather naive, look at the situation.

[m@tt]

1] KP criticises Nick Knight, is fined by ECB
Andersen criticises MV, no action taken.

Pietersen was already on a warning following his tweet about his exclusion from the ODI team. Accidental or not, he should have been more careful. Shouldn't have been fined though.
Anderson's comments have only just come out. Whilst I don't agree with player auto-biographies, at least he explain why he feels the way he does, arguably it is constructive criticism, rather than just made a crass comment on Twitter.

So basically you agree KP shouldnt have been fined, and as we see Andersen also hasnt been fined I guess you will agree there are double standards here. The mode of criticism doesnt matter, should people only feel insulted if its through twitter but should take it as "constructive criticism" if done through a bio? Whats constructive about calling someone useless in your book?

Not double standards. One was already on a warning, one was not. One made a blunt comment, one recollected personal experiences to form an opinion.

Jimmy never said Vaughan was useless, he said he didn't feel Vaughan believed in him. He pointed out how well he now gets on with him. He backs up his opinion and feeling with examples and there is an emphasis on his personal experience, rather than just a load of over-generalisations. If he called tweeted "Vaughan was a crap captain" then maybe there would be some trouble. The only part in the excerpt that worries me is the comment about the 2005 Ashes, but I think that bit has been shortened for print so it's difficult to establish the context.

2] KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned
Swann calls Samit mediocre fat spinner and is let off
Swann says something less than complimentary about KP in his bio and thats just an honest opinion

Swann was disciplined internally. England wanted the whole texting situation to be sorted out internally but Pietersen dallied and refused to clarify when given the opportunity. If he had sorted it instead of mucking about with Morgan and his agents, less leaks may have occurred.
As mentioned by someone else, KP also called Samit "unfit and fat and lazy" and nothing came of it.

Was Swann first banned and then asked to clarify? Swanns comments were very immature, and out in the open. KPs texts were not seen by anyone in Eng camp, so it was all speculation. Ideally KP should have been disciplined internally and Swann banned until he apologised

No. Neither was KP. He was asked to clarify first. He was then given extra time to clarify. All he could do was create a PR video to distract from the questions that were being asked.

KP and Swann had a meeting after the book. If it was felt that they couldn't play together, maybe Swann would have been dropped. Instead, they felt they could play together and Flower praised Pietersen's maturity.

Swann's comments about Patel were immature. He comments about Pietersen (which were sandwiched in between plenty of praise) weren't immature, though they were far from ideal.

3] KP accuses Broad, Swann and Andersen behind a parody twitter account. Subsequently that is owned up by some county player who is room mates with Broad. And half the Eng team follow the parody account within an hour of its creation. Circumstantial evidence, or rather for a person who is being parodied, this all points to his team mates ridiculing him. ECB ignores this.
KP texts something (no one still know what exactly it was, as Flower himself admitted he did not know the content) to his friends in SA team, he is banned. Now the ECB, Flower or anyone else did not have proof that this even happened. But KP was guilty until proven innocent. Also many posters dont acknowledge this as KPs honest opinion, when they feel that Swanns criticism of KPs captaincy was exactly that.

No evidence that Anderson, Swann or Broad were involved. Swann and Broad have both publicly denied knowledge - Broad via a statement, Swann via Twitter. Pietersen was given the option to do the same, i.e. put it in writing that he didn't send anything. He chose not to. If he had done so, he would have been trusted (or at least hope he would have).

You say no evidence that Anderson, Swann or Broad were involved. What evidence was there of KPs texts? Didnt the SA camp say they were just banter? What KP did not do doesnt matter, the whole point being that he was held guilty without proof.

True, South Africa said they were just banter. But they also denied they existed. They've tried to stay out of it. Pietersen was asked to clarify. He did not. It really is very simple. If someone brings allegations against you which are not true, you deny it and make it abundantly clear. Swann, Broad and Anderson have done that. Pietersen hasn't.

[hopeforthebest]

The point was, D/L, that all these players were very happy to preach Captain, Coach and unity when the decisions were going one direction so it would be rather strange for them to suddenly decide that they would not do the same under Cook now wouldn't it. luckily however Swann is more than happy to continue backing his even if it isn't Strauss.

“Whatever decision gets made about Kevin I’ll go along with it, of course I will,” said Swann. It’s a decision that will be made above my pay grade and I’m sure it will be in the best interests of the side,” The Daily Mirror quoted Swann, as saying.

“The ECB are my employers and all I want to do is play for my country. I’ll do whatever I can to support my new captain and, if he wants Kevin back in the side then, I’ll be right there doing my bit for the team as well,” he added."

Splinters I saw a video on the BBC web site of Swann saying that but you must admit it is rather 'corporation speak' not the normal Swann manner.
Then the interview with Trott that claims his support for KP. In his interview he said "if his (Pietersen's) heart is 100%" so there was that caveat to his support'.

I think taking these public utterances as reflecting what they are saying or thinking in private could be misleading.

[SaintPowelly]

NO player will come out publicly and say "I want him gone".

[Making_Splinters]

The point was, D/L, that all these players were very happy to preach Captain, Coach and unity when the decisions were going one direction so it would be rather strange for them to suddenly decide that they would not do the same under Cook now wouldn't it. luckily however Swann is more than happy to continue backing his even if it isn't Strauss.

“Whatever decision gets made about Kevin I’ll go along with it, of course I will,” said Swann. It’s a decision that will be made above my pay grade and I’m sure it will be in the best interests of the side,” The Daily Mirror quoted Swann, as saying.

“The ECB are my employers and all I want to do is play for my country. I’ll do whatever I can to support my new captain and, if he wants Kevin back in the side then, I’ll be right there doing my bit for the team as well,” he added."

Splinters I saw a video on the BBC web site of Swann saying that but you must admit it is rather 'corporation speak' not the normal Swann manner.
Then the interview with Trott that claims his support for KP. In his interview he said "if his (Pietersen's) heart is 100%" so there was that caveat to his support'.

I think taking these public utterances as reflecting what they are saying or thinking in private could be misleading.

Not at all Hope, just looking forward to seeing certain people having to back track from all the rubbish we've been force fed about Team spirit and so forth over the last few months.

Serves them right for using the press when ever it's suited them in the past to be hung by it one would think.

[D/L]

NO player will come out publicly and say "I want him gone".

Exactly, SP; it would be quitting professional suicide, especially as many of them may see a day when the ECB abandon the principles they have stuck to so far for the sake of what they see as financial gain.

[hopeforthebest]

Surely an important aspect of this is that all the players would rather be part of a successful side than an unsuccessful one and will do their darndest to find a compromise out of this situation.
If it's true that KP is demanding Swann and Anderson admit to an involvement in the 'tweeting affair', that could be a problem.

[Kim]

Im not sure why people go on about the texts. Hes apologised for sending provocative texts which Im guessing he wouldnt do if he hadnt sent provocative texts. Also this stuff about proof - its a cricket team not a bleeding court room! He was given time to deny them - he didnt which as it turns out was because he couldnt. End of.

BTW just read the full cricketer article. Nothing contentious there IMo so I dont know what cricinfo were going on about.

[shankycricket]

So if push comes to shove, who will England miss more?

A. Kevin Pietersen
B. Stuart Broad, James Anderson and Graeme Swann

im in complete agreement with you yorker....the side needs to move on and if that means without KP then so be it!

So those 3 players are going to dictate who should be in the team and who shouldn't rather than the coach/captain?

[D/L]

“Provocative”; what a strange description, unless Pietersen meant he thought they may provoke the recipients to laughter, then to surprise and then to leak their existence to the media.

However, that would be assuming that Pietersen had thought about what he would say before he said it. I wonder if he considered a less euphemistic, and perhaps more honest, description.

Having said all that, I detect the hand of Pietersen’s agent behind the description of the texts. It’s nicely open to misinterpretation.

[D/L]

So if push comes to shove, who will England miss more?

A. Kevin Pietersen
B. Stuart Broad, James Anderson and Graeme Swann

im in complete agreement with you yorker....the side needs to move on and if that means without KP then so be it!

So those 3 players are going to dictate who should be in the team and who shouldn't rather than the coach/captain?

Even if it weren’t all wild speculation, it should be obvious that that would be very unlikely to be true. I'd expect the selectors' rôle to continue unaffected.

[Kim]

So if push comes to shove, who will England miss more?

A. Kevin Pietersen
B. Stuart Broad, James Anderson and Graeme Swann

im in complete agreement with you yorker....the side needs to move on and if that means without KP then so be it!

So those 3 players are going to dictate who should be in the team and who shouldn't rather than the coach/captain?

Its a bit like a captain trying to dictate who should be coach and assistan coach, isnt it?

[D/L]

So if push comes to shove, who will England miss more?

A. Kevin Pietersen
B. Stuart Broad, James Anderson and Graeme Swann

im in complete agreement with you yorker....the side needs to move on and if that means without KP then so be it!

So those 3 players are going to dictate who should be in the team and who shouldn't rather than the coach/captain?

Its a bit like a captain trying to dictate who should be coach and assistan coach, isnt it?

Nice one, Kim.

[Kim]

I was being provocative.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... squad.html

Doesnt add much but Hes a good journo who gets most things right

[Making_Splinters]

NO player will come out publicly and say "I want him gone".

Exactly, SP; it would be quitting professional suicide, especially as many of them may see a day when the ECB abandon the principles they have stuck to so far for the sake of what they see as financial gain.

To be honest if they are not prepared to say the want him gone in public then they shouldn't have been pipping up all the rest of this time when they thought they could get away with it, though at least it did generate a nice little chuckle with Bresnan though.

I'd be delighted to see KP come back just to see the amount of hats some media type would have to wolf down.