The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[D/L]

You can't pick a player you've sacked and if any player deserved to be sacked...

[Athertonian]

Playing in the CPL and Surrey concurrently means an awful lot of travelling and a lot of cricket to be fitted in for someone who has previously complained about too much cricket.

[alfie]

Many had predicted that England team without KP would struggle to win the T20 cup.In fact they have failed to qualify even for second round.Imagine if KP was in batting lineup with Alex and Morgan.The selectors picked a losing team and they have to accept what they prepared for.

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?
It is difficult to see KP having made much difference to those scores : in fact he might well have made runs , but then someone else wouldn't have had the time or opportunity to make the runs they did ...and the end result would have been similar , if you see what I mean...

I know the diehard KP fans will never let it go ; but the evidence of this tournanment is that he may not be much missed at all , at least in t20. And I say this as one who rather thought we would suffer for his absence in Bangladesh.

Bowler selection is another issue. But I doubt KP would have bowled much

[sussexpob]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

[Athertonian]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

How can anyone know that the team would have scored more runs with KP? He might usefully have replaced Lumb or Ali but the last time Pietersen batted in a T20 game for England was February 2012. And as brillant a player as KP was he didn't succeed every time.

Alfie is right, England's totals were some of the highest in the competition, and an improvement on previous efforts with the bat. If England had bowled and fielded better against SA the total should have been enough.

[sussexpob]

How can anyone know that the team would have scored more runs with KP? He might usefully have replaced Lumb or Ali but the last time Pietersen batted in a T20 game for England was February 2012. And as brillant a player as KP was he didn't succeed every time.

Take a look what Amrit Mathur said about losing KP to the England team when he had to leave midway through the 2012 and 2013 IPL seasons. I think the general point he made was that Delhi's performance without him compared to with him is very noticeable, and he also went as far as saying that, as a former Indian Team Manager with players like Dravid/Ganguly/Sehwag/Gambhir/Dhoni/Kumble all playing under him, the only person he has seen come close to the reception and love of KP at Delhi was Tendulkar when he stepped out to bat for India. He is held in an unprecedented esteem in India for a foreign player, and for other players in general.

While you cant guarantee anything, obviously such an argument also destroys pretty much anything ever said on these boards. KP averages superbly at a SR that hardly anyone can touch, and in the IPL he averages even more and quicker, only a few players like Chris Gayle have performed better, and certainly no Indian player averages more in the IPL that has played sufficient matches for their average to mean anything.

If your argument is really going to be that we cant really tell that (a) One of the best IPL players in its history (b) the top run scorer at the last world cup he played in and player of the tournament (c) the best England player in their history playing T20.... would not improve upon someone who scored under 10 runs per innings at 30 runs per 100 balls less, has never been even picked by an IPL team let alone dominate the competition, and who's county record shows he scores about half the runs of KP at a slower rate.....

Sorry that's madness. Its like arguing that 11 bradman's wouldn't have out batted my school team simply because it didn't happen

[SaintPowelly]

Sorry that's madness. Its like arguing that 11 bradman's wouldn't have out batted my school team simply because it didn't happen

The fact is, if the players don't want to play with him and the coaches don't want to work with him, then its not an issue that needs to be constantly spoke about, he will NOT come back, everyone needs to move on. KP isn't a victim either.

[sussexpob]

Sorry that's madness. Its like arguing that 11 bradman's wouldn't have out batted my school team simply because it didn't happen

The fact is, if the players don't want to play with him and the coaches don't want to work with him, then its not an issue that needs to be constantly spoke about, he will NOT come back, everyone needs to move on. KP isn't a victim either.

Moving on is a victory to the stupidity of what has happened since the Ashes, I would prefer to dwell on it and demand actual answers and change. If you want to dust it under the carpet and see it continue then be my guest.

[sussexpob]

Also, how many people in this dressing room and even the coach have worked with KP?

Has KP even played under Giles? Only Broad and Tredwell have played with him recently, and I think both came out in support of him.. oh and Bresnan, but then again I don't think his performance really merits anyone listening to what makes him feel happier.

[SaintPowelly]

It was made clear why he won't return, the coaches and players don't want him back, unless the answer is making KP coach,batsman and selector and letting him finding guys that want to work for him/play under him, then he wont be back.

[sussexpob]

It was made clear why he won't return, the coaches and players don't want him back, unless the answer is making KP coach,batsman and selector and letting him finding guys that want to work for him/play under him, then he wont be back.

I hate to thing what would happen if KP was made coach/captain and selector.... we might get whitewashed in the Ashes and get knocked out first round in the T20 worlds, losing to an associate side....

Oh wait...

[Arthur Crabtree]

Isn't it self evident that you don't leave out your best T20 player, your one batter that is comparable to the best in the format? Would you leave out Dale Steyn on the supposition that you can't guarantee that he would have a great competition? It just doesn't make sense.

Flower, Cook, Prior don't want KP back, and Flower has gone. It's far from clear that anyone else feels the same. In fact, the majority of players (Trott, Tremlett, Swann, Anderson, Tredwell, Broad) have supported him when really it wasn't in their interests to do that. Even Giles hasn't indicated he didn't want KP.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Alfie is right, England's totals were some of the highest in the competition, and an improvement on previous efforts with the bat. If England had bowled and fielded better against SA the total should have been enough.

[/quote]

But crucially not high enough to win key games.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Just seen the score. That is appalling. The KP affair is just a symptom of a deeper malaise. This past winter is indefensible in so many ways.

[Aidan11]

After years of therapy, I was finally cured last week of running through the streets with an axe in a menacing manner.

Then this happens.