The enigma that is Kevin Pietersen

[D/L]

Just seen the score. That is appalling. The KP affair is just a symptom of a deeper malaise...

Or the cause of it, perhaps.

[m@tt]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

In the games that England showed some fight, would it have been likely they would have with Pietersen in the team... no

Overall, would they, therefore, have acquitted themselves better with Pietersen in the team... no

Is it likely that Pietersen's absence made any difference to the outcome... no

Sussex's points are based on the weight of runs that KP has made in the England T20 team. Not sure what yours are based on. Yes KP fell out with Flower, Cook and Prior (none present in Bangladesh), but to say that KP's presence wouldn't have improved England goes against 8 years of KP playing for England.

[D/L]

Yet the team scored 172 195 and 193 .... three of the largest totals in the competition to date . That they are not progressing is surely down to bowling/fielding issues , and perhaps some ill-fortune with the weather in the first match , rather than any batting weakness ?

Would England have likely scored more runs with KP.... yes

With more runs would England have beaten South Africa.... yes

With a slightly higher net rate would England have beaten NZ....yes

Regardless of poor fielding, England needed a tiny extra bit of batting to win each game... and without KP, we lost them, with him his expected performance as a T20 legend would have seen us through had everything else been the same.

In the games that England showed some fight, would it have been likely they would have with Pietersen in the team... no

Overall, would they, therefore, have acquitted themselves better with Pietersen in the team... no

Is it likely that Pietersen's absence made any difference to the outcome... no

Sussex's points are based on the weight of runs that KP has made in the England T20 team. Not sure what yours are based on. Yes KP fell out with Flower, Cook and Prior (none present in Bangladesh), but to say that KP's presence wouldn't have improved England goes against 8 years of KP playing for England.

They are based mostly upon what seems to be the recent situation with Pietersen and not, however one views it, the net result of his time in the team over those years. That would seem to be the more sensible approach to the question.

[sussexpob]

KP coming out to say that he was the first to notice Trott was in a bad way


“I could see it, I just went to help him and said to him, ‘You just need to calm down a little bit, you’re putting too much pressure on yourself. Let’s see if there’s anything we can do.’ "Look, I really like Trotty. Contrary to popular belief I actually have a really good relationship with most of the guys in the [England] dressing room. "So for Trotty, I like to look after him and when I see him struggling – or I see anybody struggling – I’ll go and put an arm around them and see if they’re OK.

“I think the key to being successful is that the management, the captain certainly, understands each player and lets every single individual be themselves. I think it’s really important to do that – not set strict guidelines. It’s about enjoying the environment and getting the best out of each individual.”

[D/L]

Just what you'd expect from a nice guy.

No PR going on here at all?

(Also posted on the Trott thread)

[SaintPowelly]

Does anyone know why he isn't playing for Surrey this week ( other than he doesn't want too )

He has been at The Oval before the game.

[sussexpob]

Does anyone know why he isn't playing for Surrey this week ( other than he doesn't want too )

He has been at The Oval before the game.

As far as I know, the IPL starts next week and as captain of the side he is needed to be in India for the media build up

[Arthur Crabtree]

So now we know. There was no smoking gun. There was no gun, unfired. There wasn't even a bar of soap, chiseled to look like a, er, gub and painted black. Kevin felt alienated from his team, and had to go. It wasn't even the whistling.

[D/L]

We know nothing yet. Contractually, people have to be careful about what they say until September is out.

[Athertonian]

So now we know. There was no smoking gun. There was no gun, unfired. There wasn't even a bar of soap, chiseled to look like a, er, gub and painted black. Kevin felt alienated from his team, and had to go. It wasn't even the whistling.

This is not what was said. Downton said that when he arrived at the England camp at the end of December he found there were two issues: one was Flower's own future, the other about Pietersen, whom he described as "a senior player who had got disconnected from the team." It was not about how KP felt, but the fact of this actual breakdown between him and the rest of the team. Downton spoke to everyone: all the coaches, the chairman of selectors, the captain, several senior players. The unanimous conclusion was that for England to move forward and the side to grow they had to rebuild a new team with some core values, and it was decided that that would not happen with KP in the side.

I have no more knowledge than you do about what core values couldn't be achieved with Pietersen (although I could make a few guesses) . What stands out is that this was a unanimous decision, not the whim of a captain who felt out of his depth or the revenge of a coach known as a control freak.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Downton, after England arrived in Sydney, said he had two issues to address, KP's alienation/disconnection, and Flower's decision for the future. Just think about that. 4-0 down in the Ashes, and he doesn't have to decide anything other than KP. Flower's decision was his own to make. The players have pretty much said there was no issue with Pietersen, the main issue was with Cook and Flower. As we found out, Flower was on his way anyway, but he wanted to take KP out before he went. KP became disconnected/alienatedfrom the decision making process as soon as he was asked to field on the boundary by Cook. The younger players have said KP made them feel welcome and helped them adapt to international level. Not just the young players, Carberry said that too. This disingenuous statement from Downton doesn't corrospond with info we have from the squad.

[Athertonian]

Downton, after England arrived in Sydney, said he had two issues to address, KP's alienation/disconnection, and Flower's decision for the future. Just think about that. 4-0 down in the Ashes, and he doesn't have to decide anything other than KP. Flower's decision was his own to make. The players have pretty much said there was no issue with Pietersen, the main issue was with Cook and Flower. As we found out, Flower was on his way anyway, but he wanted to take KP out before he went. KP became disconnected/alienatedfrom the decision making process as soon as he was asked to field on the boundary by Cook. The younger players have said KP made them feel welcome and helped them adapt to international level. Not just the young players, Carberry said that too. This disingenuous statement from Downton doesn't corrospond with info we have from the squad.

What I said in my previous post was how Downton related it in the press conference, and which you are agreeing with here. Did you miss the bit where he says he talked to everyone including senior players and the decison they came to was unanimous? Why would a man newly appointed as manager of England cricket and wanting to do his best in his new post twist the truth and enter into some kind of ludicroua conspiracy with the coach and captain? England were 4-0 down and things were going badly. Downton is a manager, not a coach. Not much he could do about the cricket, but clearly the tension was affecting everything and had to be dealt with.

A lot of younger and fringe players say how helpful and friendly KP is to them. This is a well worn pattern of his career. It's when it comes to his peers and management that the problems seem to arise. It's not as if this has never happened before, is it?

Really it is pointless for us -and obviously myself - to keep discussing this because KP fans have made their minds up and nothing on earth will open their eyes to the reality.

Let's hope that we can watch the cricket this summer and talk about the other players.

[D/L]

If Pietersen had been sacked at the time of the texts, as he should have been, much of the shambles that followed may have been avoided.

I pay little heed to what players say in public about a fellow professional and even less to what others say they said.

[Albondiga]

KP is in cricket for KP and KP only. I'm not saying this is wrong just that it is so. I think he would have been more suited to being a tennis player or golfer. It is possible that England would be more successful with him than without him but we all know that it is bowling and fielding that really wins matches because you have to take twenty wickets ( generally ) to win a test match. If he had just taken a few good catches and scored a lot of runs he might still have been there now but he wanted to run the show and he was simply not the man to do so.

[braveneutral]

Now Bairstow has come out and said he will miss playing with him or something of the like. In all honestly I couldn't be bothered to read the article. However it does confirm that he has at least one fan in the north.