Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:30 pm

Alviro Patterson wrote: Maybe Flower is still employed by the ECB because of his track record as England coach (3 Ashes wins, a World T20 title and World No1 status in all three formats at some stage).


That's only half the story though. He left behind scorched earth.

He's probably still in charge now.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:33 pm

KP's call to bring the team closer to the public is a valid one. A post-Clarke mission perhaps.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:45 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Alviro Patterson wrote:
KP isn't doing himself favours with his almighty high opinion and personal agenda. Maybe Strauss achieved longevity as England captain because of his success ratio and willingness to work with others. Maybe Flower is still employed by the ECB because of his track record as England coach (3 Ashes wins, a World T20 title and World No1 status in all three formats at some stage).


The alternative, that Kevin should just accept his treatment without dissent doesn't feel reasonable. Or even without being able to give his point of view. Arguably this may help the current England team. And he hasn't gone all that hard at Moores and Cook. I can't really see what harm his book is going to do them? Is criticising Whitaker, Flower, Downton and Clarke going to touch the 11 on the pitch?

Moores and Cook could try and learn from this. It wasn't just KP who felt let down. Lessons were not learned about the last two years of the Flower era. They were ignored. Issues with burn out, injury, mental issues, and perhaps bullying aren't going to go away.


The alternative is keep your head run and score a shedload of runs, rather than live on reputation alone. For a player to still have England asiprations, KP has shot himself in the foot for releasing an autobiography in criticising individuals at will. That won't bode with current and new personnel within the ECB, should a personality clash happen.

Not sure how Cook and Moores can learn from a previous era, when the make up of the current England squad is somewhat different. The up and coming players such as Moeen Ali, Jos Buttler, Joe Root, Gary Ballance and Chris Woakes are going to be integral to the new era.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby KipperJohn » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:47 pm

The great bn is a time traveller - so he'll know exactly what's in the book and what the eventual fall out will be. That is assuming of course, that he is from the future - which he must be as time travel has not been discovered yet as far as I'm aware. It follows therefore that History lies in the future, as well as the past.

The book below and the subsequent sequels are highly recommended - especially for anyone with a sense of humour!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Damned-Thing-Af ... &sr=1-7ded -
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:55 pm

Alviro Patterson wrote:The alternative is keep your head run and score a shedload of runs, rather than live on reputation alone. For a player to still have England asiprations, KP has shot himself in the foot for releasing an autobiography in criticising individuals at will. That won't bode with current and new personnel within the ECB, should a personality clash happen.

Not sure how Cook and Moores can learn from a previous era, when the make up of the current England squad is somewhat different. The up and coming players such as Moeen Ali, Jos Buttler, Joe Root, Gary Ballance and Chris Woakes are going to be integral to the new era.


Scoring runs would have been irrelevant. That was the point of sacking him, rather than dropping him. He was told he wasn't under consideration.

They could learn the points I make above. But KP was a special case. Some feel that the dressing room and Flower have been trying to drive him out for the last two years, and he was inconveniently compliant in accepting the humiliations that would allow him to keep following his dream of 10000 Test runs. No other player is likely to be asked to do as much.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:14 pm

Maybe if KP led by example on the field when England were falling to pieces in Australia, rather than embroil in dressing room politics then he would come out of this more favourably.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:31 pm

That's just assuming that he did, and was alone in this. Don't forget the doctor told him he had to field in the outfield. Cook wanted Prior's advice, he never looked towards KP. Pietersen was top run scorer, so he has certainly no more culpable than anyone else in not doing his job on the field.

Most of the England squad have said that he helped behind the scenes with coaching- the bowlers and the younger players. Carberry said he was the most welcoming of the team. Trott said KP flagged up his problem to Flower before he did himself. The ECB have run a pretty ruinous assault on KP's reputation since the whitewash, waged through leaks to the press that usually haven't stood up. For example, that he returned his commemorative bat for his hundredth Test, when in fact the ECB spelt his name wrongly!

The thing I feel most uncomfortable about this attempt by KP to settle the score is that he refers to conversations that would have been assumed to be private. I don't mind when he does that to management figures who leaked comments he made (KP's assessment of Taylor, in the company of Flower ended up in the press). But in the dressing room, with Swann and Broad? I'm not sure. Of course, he believes that they gave material to the fake twitter account. But however he has behaved, others have behaved questionably, and been ignored.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Aidan11 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:33 pm

There will always be mavericks in the England team. It's how they are man-managed that's the key.

Look at Botham - great player shot to pieces by the burden of captaincy, off field headlines following him around, resigned and facing being dropped from the team. In came Mike Brearley...knew exactly how to handle him and the rest is history.

I have read a lot of sporting autobiographies including football managers such as Fergie & Cloughie. They talk about how all players are different...some can take a rollocking and some need an arm around the shoulder. It's being able to identify which players need the right sort of treatment that turns good players into great and thus doing the same for the manager.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:35 pm

The style is settling down a little after the breathless exhaustion of the opening. It's got a nice, crunchy pulp fiction stream of consciousness.

'There was no let up. If it's Tuesday, this must be Christchurch. How do we know? He told us in a team meeting
'We got burnt out big time'.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:38 pm

Aidan11 wrote:There will always be mavericks in the England team. It's how they are man-managed that's the key.

Look at Botham - great player shot to pieces by the burden of captaincy, off field headlines following him around, resigned and facing being dropped from the team. In came Mike Brearley...knew exactly how to handle him and the rest is history.

I have read a lot of sporting autobiographies including football managers such as Fergie & Cloughie. They talk about how all players are different...some can take a rollocking and some need an arm around the shoulder. It's being able to identify which players need the right sort of treatment that turns good players into great and thus doing the same for the manager.


I remember one of the first things Fletcher did was to bring back Ramps, Hick, Caddick and Tufnell, who were dropped for reasons of personality. Obviously not all of those worked out, but he was saying that you have to get your best players in the team. Really, if you are going to win the tough series, is there any other way?
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby rich1uk » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:39 pm

Aidan11 wrote:There will always be mavericks in the England team. It's how they are man-managed that's the key.



and that's the most important issue here

no doubt KP had faults , and at times was pretty stupid in the way he went about things, but its the job of a manager to find ways to deal with your best players , not to isolate them further
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby hopeforthebest » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:51 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:That's just assuming that he did, and was alone in this. Don't forget the doctor told him he had to field in the outfield. Cook wanted Prior's advice, he never looked towards KP. Pietersen was top run scorer, so he has certainly no more culpable than anyone else in not doing his job on the field.

Most of the England squad have said that he helped behind the scenes with coaching- the bowlers and the younger players. Carberry said he was the most welcoming of the team. Trott said KP flagged up his problem to Flower before he did himself. The ECB have run a pretty ruinous assault on KP's reputation since the whitewash, waged through leaks to the press that usually haven't stood up. For example, that he returned his commemorative bat for his hundredth Test, when in fact the ECB spelt his name wrongly!

The thing I feel most uncomfortable about this attempt by KP to settle the score is that he refers to conversations that would have been assumed to be private. I don't mind when he does that to management figures who leaked comments he made (KP's assessment of Taylor, in the company of Flower ended up in the press). But in the dressing room, with Swann and Broad? I'm not sure. Of course, he believes that they gave material to the fake twitter account. But however he has behaved, others have behaved questionably, and been ignored.


AC you keep on quoting what Trott said, where do these quotes come from, I've not come across them. And repeating the fact that KP was top run scorer when he simply was only the least worse is meaningless. He averaged 29 and Bell 26 hardly winning any prizes there.
None of us really know what went on in the dressing room although it's been pretty obvious for a long time that Prior and Swann have big mouths and are likely to have had more than their say at team meetings.
I can also believe that the bowlers would form something of a clique but surely that's natural when they would spend a fair amount of time together talking about tactics separate from the batsmen. After all bowlers are regarded as a special breed anyway.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:01 pm

KPs runs are relevant to a suggestion that he let the team down on the pitch. I don't really make any claim that he did well in the series, and I never have.

A clique is understandable, even advantageous. But it depends how it behaves: Mean Girls or the Famous Five.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby hopeforthebest » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:34 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:KPs runs are relevant to a suggestion that he let the team down on the pitch. I don't really make any claim that he did well in the series, and I never have.

A clique is understandable, even advantageous. But it depends how it behaves: Mean Girls or the Famous Five.


When KP went to Oz it was on the back of, by his standards, an already poor year and I suspect his continued failures in those ashes was a great frustration to him. In consequence he vented his frustration by finding fault with everything around him.
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Re: Kevin Pietersen's Autobiography.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:47 pm

Well possibly. I find it very difficult to trust the ECB/etc on this, given what they have leaked- about the commemorative bat, about falling out with Taylor as examples, neither of which are true. The dossier, that wasn't even leaked, it ended up in its entirety on someone's desk at cricinfo. The stitch up over being 'disinterested'. Cook's promise that once we knew we would understand- so the promise of a smoking gun which never materialised. And more. I forget stuff; there's so much of it.

Ironically, if they did nothing, he might be gone now anyway. His injury was a problem. His performances weren't great. But they've made him a lightning rod for anyone with a problem with the way the ECB go about their business. And thrown in a lot of material too. The best thing the ECB ever had on KP (that made me uncomfortable) was his wish to play in the IPL, given he complained about burn out, and he wanted a full England contract. They could have just banged that out if they wanted to destroy him. But, that's the heart of the problem; why did they want him to be destroyed?
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