Ben Stokes

[Arthur Crabtree]

In the last two England tests we have lost mind, he has bagged a pair in one, and gone for over 7 an over with the ball in the other....

Everyone in the England side has half a dozen of that kind of stat on their record over the past few years. Players commonly do badly in defeats.

I'm a bit surprised by this kind of tack, Sussex. I often see you decry the reluctance to give a good chance to unorthodox or unusual talent, but here you're only willing to interpret what we have seen in a negative way. I'm not sure Stokes will make it, but he does represent an exciting opportunity. Of course he gives too many runs away. But he's also a 90mph bowler who has just hit a second test ton.

[sussexpob]

In the last two England tests we have lost mind, he has bagged a pair in one, and gone for over 7 an over with the ball in the other....

Everyone in the England side has half a dozen of that kind of stat on their record over the past few years. Players commonly do badly in defeats.

I'm a bit surprised by this kind of tack, Sussex. I often see you decry the reluctance to give a good chance to unorthodox or unusual talent, but here you're only willing to interpret what we have seen in a negative way. I'm not sure Stokes will make it, but he does represent an exciting opportunity. Of course he gives too many runs away. But he's also a 90mph bowler who has just hit a second test ton.

I dont think that has ever been my point, quite the opposite. I have always favoured a selection policy that trusts actual performance over presumed physical characteristics. That is something that I have been very consistently attacking, this idea that we pick guys based on "pace, or reverse swing" even though they cant take a wicket against Essex (See comments on Overton I made recently, for instance) and go at 5 an over regularly. ODI cricket is different, because your summing up of my position in limited overs cricket is more correct.... but in tests, I want to see people who are scoring well consistently getting a chance, not youngsters who havent done it in the CC being premature elevated to fake status of their ability.

Stokes averages 33 in FC cricket with the bat, how this equates to a test number 6 when he is no better than probably 70-80% of Division one county players is beyond me. His returns, even including this test, over his career will have been under par. Nick Compton copped it after 9 tests with 2 hundreds for instance.

He has been artificially put in a position in the batting line up because his bowling has been so terrible, but they dont want to drop him.... but his bowling is getting so bad, his captain hardly wants to give him the ball, and there is no logical reason for maintaining he is going to survive as just a batter.

In the end, he can only be a test player if his bowling is up to scratch, and he has a huge amount of improvement in that area before he looks like a test bowler.

[SaintPowelly]

In the last two England tests we have lost mind, he has bagged a pair in one, and gone for over 7 an over with the ball in the other....

Stokes averages 33 in FC cricket with the bat, how this equates to a test number 6 when he is no better than probably 70-80% of Division one county players is beyond me. His returns, even including this test, over his career will have been under par. Nick Compton copped it after 9 tests with 2 hundreds for instance

[Arthur Crabtree]

Too late for now for Stokes to merit his place by having the best stats in the CC, as he's having his chance now and showing ability. But I take your point and generally agree.

Athers always says some people step up on contact with the top level. Hopefully that'll happen with Stokes.

[SaintPowelly]

I can't see what Stokes has done to earn his spot

Likewise whoever chose Mark Wood ( nothing against the guy ) has at some point watched Durham and completely ignored Rushworth

ECB are strange

[Arthur Crabtree]

Kevin Keegan famously wanted a team with eleven Berti Vogts. Maybe just looking at the the stats of the top players in the CC isn't going to get you the blend of talent that makes a good team. I like what a combative, attacking player gives you. Otherwise, you just have seven Alastair Cooks (assuming one can keep) and four James Andersons.

[Durhamfootman]

Is there a reason why the pundits seem to be crediting Farbrace with promoting Stokes to 6? My understanding is that Ali was supposed to be batting 6, but got caught in the nets thanks to the first hour collapse to 30-4. Stokes was down on the team sheet to bat 7 wasn't he?

These experts don't half talk some rubbish at times

[Arthur Crabtree]

England are saying Stokes was down at six. Otherwise, I suppose, Moeen wouldn't have been in the nets.

[Dr Cricket]

lol if you picked the 11 best player in Statistic england would pick a very bad team and probably pick players that not even international standard.

As a selectors yes you pick players on stats but that only like 20-30% with the other 40% on Ability and the rest on Temperament.

As a batsman you look at their ability to play Spin or Pace and have a close look at their Technique.
As a bowlers is all about Rev for the Spinner and how much he can get it to turn or bounce.
For quick it is pace and how they really bowl in flat decks or how much movement they can get.
Mark Wood got his chance for bowling really well at the lions tour.

[Dr Cricket]

Is there a reason why the pundits seem to be crediting Farbrace with promoting Stokes to 6? My understanding is that Ali was supposed to be batting 6, but got caught in the nets thanks to the first hour collapse to 30-4. Stokes was down on the team sheet to bat 7 wasn't he?

These experts don't half talk some rubbish at times

You are kind of mistaken before the game or after the toss, Stoke was listed at 6 and Ali at 8 and all comms thought it was a mistake.
But guessing Ali was being called back from the nets since England probably thought he would be needed soon guessing they didn't expect Stokes to score 90 odd.

[Dr Cricket]

it is like people saying David Masters should play for England as a bowler or Darren Stevens as an all rounder.

The reality is many people with Good stats on County Cricket just won't do well in International cricket.

Selectors get paid to find Cricketers they feel would do well in International cricket.

Rushworth is a good selection but guessing his age is counting against him.

[Durhamfootman]

I can't see what Stokes has done to earn his spot

Likewise whoever chose Mark Wood ( nothing against the guy ) has at some point watched Durham and completely ignored Rushworth

ECB are strange

Rushy is the same shape as Samit. no way England are going to pick him. Nor can he bowl at 90mph. you might as well wonder why Darren Stevens doesn't get picked

[Durhamfootman]

Bhave

[Durhamfootman]

England are saying Stokes was down at six. Otherwise, I suppose, Moeen wouldn't have been in the nets.

More likely that it was inconceivable that a number 6 would be required in the first hour of a home test match. They can say what they like, after all cook is the outstanding captain when it suits them. Don't make it true

[Making_Splinters]

England are too enamoured with the idea that a cricketer needs to be built like a brick *modded* house. Inzy would have never got a game if he had been English.