Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

dan08 wrote:By the way, that extract was Strauss on Andy Flower.

And people fault KP for calling him a doos. Surely, after reading that, we can conclude it was a fair comment regardless of intent/truth or anything?

Andy Flower, what a guy... you cant argue with him, he is too good.... he can even spend 5 minutes telling you just how good Hitler was cause he built some roads and made the economy a little better in Germany, regardless of him exterminating 12 million Jews.

I have never seen this before.... how did Flower or anyone involved keep their jobs after that? I would have lamped him one, got dropped, and when people asked casually inform them " I smacked him round the head because he spent 5 minutes telling me Hitler was a saint".

I don't think there really is a "pro KP" movement anymore, it's more an "anti-ECB" sentiment. KP has become the central example of what is wrong with the ECB, but, most of us are more interested in fundamental change at the ECB than we are about KP playing for England again.

I'm in the anti KP anti ECB camp, not sure what that makes me........confused?

Aidan11 wrote:

Gingerfinch wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:

Gingerfinch wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:I need one of AC's recaps of who's in which camp!

KP is even dividing CMS. What a doos!

I think the pro KP camp holds the majority, and a considerably larger one than the current Conservative government.

The pro KP camp may be forced to re-consider their thoughts when team England triumph in the ashes

I think most people will settle for KP not getting back in as long as Cook goes.

Goes as a captain?

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Goes as a captain?

A few days ago I would have said yes, but if it's true that Cook told Strauss that it was "him or me" in the KP saga, and add to that his post-WC comments and his other comments after the WIs series, it seems Cook has gotten a little aoove himself.

Maybe this mild-mannered choirboy is a ruthless no-nonsense individual. Great if he was channelling it into the team but it seems he's only interested in himself.

I wont shed any tears when he goes.

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Goes as a captain?

A few days ago I would have said yes, but if it's true that Cook told Strauss that it was "him or me" in the KP saga, and add to that his post-WC comments and his other comments after the WIs series, it seems Cook has gotten a little aoove himself.

Maybe this mild-mannered choirboy is a ruthless no-nonsense individual. Great if he was channelling it into the team but it seems he's only interested in himself.

I wont shed any tears when he goes.

I guess being around Pietersen so much is bound to have an effect!

Cook has grown far too big for his boots.

Two series losses this summer will hopefully see the back of him.

Actually it would only take an ashes defeat for him to get sacked, very likely Root is taking over after the Ashes and that even if Cook wins the Ashes.
Strong rumours going around that Root gonna be given the reign to give him time ahead of the 2019 Ashes/World cup.
Cook is only being captain for the Ashes just so root doesn't do it this year and suffer the backlash and increased publicity of an ashes series.


I be very surprised if Cook is captaining against South africa in the Winter.

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Goes as a captain?

A few days ago I would have said yes, but if it's true that Cook told Strauss that it was "him or me" in the KP saga, and add to that his post-WC comments and his other comments after the WIs series, it seems Cook has gotten a little aoove himself.

Maybe this mild-mannered choirboy is a ruthless no-nonsense individual. Great if he was channelling it into the team but it seems he's only interested in himself.

I wont shed any tears when he goes.

he would leave a hole at the top of the order but we are losing anyway so i would rather him out the team as i wouldnt have to listen to him speak or watch him bat ever again

i do hope they dont give the captaincy to root so soon though as that would knock at least 3 or 4 years off his career

backfootpunch wrote:

Aidan11 wrote:

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Goes as a captain?

A few days ago I would have said yes, but if it's true that Cook told Strauss that it was "him or me" in the KP saga, and add to that his post-WC comments and his other comments after the WIs series, it seems Cook has gotten a little aoove himself.

Maybe this mild-mannered choirboy is a ruthless no-nonsense individual. Great if he was channelling it into the team but it seems he's only interested in himself.

I wont shed any tears when he goes.

he would leave a hole at the top of the order but we are losing anyway so i would rather him out the team as i wouldnt have to listen to him speak or watch him bat ever again

i do hope they dont give the captaincy to root so soon though as that would knock at least 3 or 4 years off his career

I'd give it to Bell for a couple of years to allow Root more time to mature as an international player.

I'd give it to the best person regardless of age. I'd like it to be a younger player to lead a new generation in the team. Moeen or Root. Woakes?

Root seems the obvious choice. he's young, and has a secure place in the team. Well as secure as anyone's. I also like a batsman to be a captain. Of course Cook may have a wonderful summer, and end up keeping the captaincy.

The whole premise of everyone's roles in the ECB is overblown, everyone has got too big for their boots, Cook is just joining the party. In fairness to him, it cant have been easy to manage or captain a team in this environment.... first he had Flower, the man who was so flexible, he could argue Hitler was a top guy, and after he has had to deal with all the ECB's latest hacks trying to offer English cricket the miracle pill, and failing miserably.

There is no clear separation of powers in the ECB, no definition to any roles, no clarity. The last 10 days have shown that we had a selection decision whereby the CEO, the MD, the Director and the Captain where all involved in making..... the only two people in the hierarchy that weren't seemingly consulted is the acting coach, and the selector Whitaker. So the coach and selectors don't select, but the bloke who used to run costcutter and should be content with shaking hands and eating sandwiches in the pavilion with his little red and yellow tie on is?

So the Captain out ranks the Coach and selector? But the Captain has no authority on tactics, because that was all Moores fault? But then the coach cant pick players to suit his tactics, because the captain has? Meanwhile the selector is sitting there thinking "of only I had some autonomy in selection, I could get involved".

Do you ever see Chairman and Managing directors in football teams picking sides? Do you see Administrative focused directors telling managers they cant sign a guy the manager wants, even without consulting the chief scout? Do you ever see a club captain being consulted about player acquisition before the coach and chief scout? Do you ever see all of them getting together without the manager and discussing tactics? Does the MD/Director and Chairman ever discuss the formation to be used and force it on a coach? Literally never happens, and if it did, they would get so much stick in the press.

Suggested Role profiles

Captain - Gets the team the coach picks, contributions to those discussions on ideas, but has no selection powers. Applies his cricketing knowledge to get best out of players on the field, gives boring press conferences about how hard people are working. Is subordinate to coach.

Head Coach - Picks the side based on factors of tactics and conditions, which he discusses. Has power to appoint captain of his choosing to enact this blueprint. Oversees other coaches, which he should choose to hire.

Selector - Scouts county cricket for talent and reports to head coach about what he sees. Has no authority over head coach, he is simply an advisor.

Coaches - Subordinate to head coach. Are responsible for preparing those players selected for games.

Director - Does the paper work. Has no operational power over Head Coach, constitutionally has no authority to dictate any aspect of on field performance matters.

MD - Oversees the suitability and performance of director and Head Coach. Has no authority on field matters.

Chairman - Oversees ECB and reports to his board.

What is Flower doing all this time?

Feels like there are two layers of management that could be got rid of. At least D & MD is one job. Or manager and general manager as I'd call them.

Any KP stories today?