There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:24 pm

andy wrote:Stunned the West Indies haven;t called upon Archer! He would be the best player in their side! Topley won't play a test, i doubt he will play another 4 day game! His body can't take it...another LOI specalist..


The only reasonable explanation is he doesn't want to. But yeah, I agree, I'll be very surprised if archer isn't capped for windies in the next 12 months
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:33 pm

Archer doesn't want to play for WI which is pretty sad really.
he wants to play for england and set his eyes on that.
I believe Chris jordan brought him to sussex after he suffered an injury in barbados and his happy at sussex and made his decision that his future likes in England.
bit sad though since it would have been good if WI were able to pick both Jordan and Archer.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby andy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:18 pm

Archer and Jordan, backed up by Roach and Gabriel, would be some pace attack!
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:07 am

Jordan hasn't looked international class for England. Great fielder though.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby mikesiva » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:55 am

Archer and Jordan make more money playing county cricket than they would playing international cricket for the west indies.

If he accepted a call from the west indies he would then become an international player and that could jeopardise his county cricket contract. Right now he plays for Sussex as a local player because of his British passport due to one of his parents or grandparents being British.

It's as simple as that.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/14666164 ... x_hotshot/

Jordan said: “I first came across him probably in 2011 or 2012 when I played a couple of first-class seasons in Barbados and he came along to bowl at us in the nets. I kept my eye on him and took him under my wing because I really liked his character and how he went about his cricket. He is not afraid of challenging himself. Then I found out he had a British passport and he came to me and said he wanted an opportunity in England."
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby mikesiva » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:59 am

Adi wrote:Jofra's fielding is way below average. From what i have watched his fielding is even worse than some of the associate as well as minnow team players. He struggles to take high catches.

If Monty was dropped for fielding, no way Jofra will kept in England team. Monty at least took a relatively higher number of successful catches.

Jofra's bowling is good though in shorter format. Nice pace and he will hurry up the batters for sure. His consistency over line and length cannot be commented upon by watching short spells in T20 though.

Archer did however take an outstanding relay catch on the boundary for hobart which is ranked as one of the best catches of this season's Big Bash.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:37 pm

Dr Cricket wrote:Archer doesn't want to play for WI which is pretty sad really.
he wants to play for england and set his eyes on that.
I believe Chris jordan brought him to sussex after he suffered an injury in barbados and his happy at sussex and made his decision that his future likes in England.
bit sad though since it would have been good if WI were able to pick both Jordan and Archer.

Cant blame him really

Cricket is his livelihood after all and playing for England will see him earn a lot more
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:53 pm

Bayliss has said that Vince deserves more chances based on his potential. I wish I had the same vision as the only potential I see is him getting out wafting outside off stump.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Adi » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:12 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:Bayliss has said that Vince deserves more chances based on his potential. I wish I had the same vision as the only potential I see is him getting out wafting outside off stump.


I feel James should be given one proper series in Asia (6 or innings innings of batting). I say that because he appeared to be a front foot player in whatever little innings i watched in this Ashes. In Asia where usually the ball does not deviates from the line, he can be a good scoring option. Having said that, i have not observed whether he is capable of leaving the crease against spinners and milk the bowlers for runs or adjust the stroke if the spinners adjust their length seeing the charge.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:44 am

Making_Splinters wrote:Bayliss has said that Vince deserves more chances based on his potential. I wish I had the same vision as the only potential I see is him getting out wafting outside off stump.

Don't see him ever working as a number 3

Maybe swap him and malan around

Malan seems much more suited to batting in the top order, much happier to grind out tough runs if he has to
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:59 am

backfootpunch wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:Bayliss has said that Vince deserves more chances based on his potential. I wish I had the same vision as the only potential I see is him getting out wafting outside off stump.

Don't see him ever working as a number 3

Maybe swap him and malan around

Malan seems much more suited to batting in the top order, much happier to grind out tough runs if he has to


I don't see him ever succeeding at Test level full stop. It's just the same innings again and again, he's shown zero capacity for improvement in his career so far. Compare that with Malan who had technical issues when he first came into the side which South Africa exploited, he went away and worked on them then in his next series finished as England's top run scorer against a very good Australian attack.

One of them has a future in England sides, the other doesn't.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am

Making_Splinters wrote: I don't see him ever succeeding at Test level full stop. It's just the same innings again and again, he's shown zero capacity for improvement in his career so far. Compare that with Malan who had technical issues when he first came into the side which South Africa exploited, he went away and worked on them then in his next series finished as England's top run scorer against a very good Australian attack


Can a batsman work on luck, or is it just a natural consequence? Praising Malan as a gritty guy who has worked hard to make runs seems a bit of a scorecard judgement to me. For large parts of his innings where he made contributions, he straight up benefited from a lot of luck going his way. All of these long innings are filled with examples of him getting frustrated and taking on false shots, he just got away with them. If you were to condense his innings down and showed them to people without knowledge of his scores, I think people would be more inclined to think he was a poor player.

There are certainly two large areas he has struggled with without that being reflected in his stats. The first was Lyon, who he never really looked convinced with. In fact, for large spells Lyon dominated him, quite how he didnt get his wicket in a lot of tests is beyond me. The second is the short ball, despite flat and slow pitches, if you were to count how many false pulls, hooks or gloves Malan misplaced under the bouncers, youd think any fast paced bowler would back themselves to get him out.

James Vince's tests at Brisbane and Perth rather sum up the difference between the two. At Brisbane, Vince played very well, was set for a hundred , then Lyon produces a bit of world class fielding with the perfect pick up, throw and release, and Vince goes. At Perth, in challenging conditions, he was all set again to make a big score then got what has to go down as one of the most unplayable balls in the history of the game from Starc. Not even Bradman in his prime is getting near a ball that seams off a decent length enough to change a wide of leg stump line into a hitting the top of off one. Nothing Vince or anyone could have done.

In contrast, Malan started the series by taking on a wild attempt at a short ball and bottom edging just short of Paine. He kept on taking it on till he eventually pulled to a fielder. At Perth, Warner missed a run out. Bancroft dropped him at short leg. When Lyon was doing him over, Malan started trying to use his feet, and was damn lucky; he squirted one edge to Bancroft that was catchable, but Bancroft misunderstood it being hit hard and was too busy covering up. Bancroft then missed an easy run out himself. Malan then top edged a few short balls he had no control over. He was dropped in the slips too. That second innings in Perth was probably his most faultless, but even then as Vince was getting unplayable balls, Malan kept on seeing his own whistle past his rather uncontrolled prodded edges. Think in the first innings 140 he also got one of those leg stump umpires calls where only 49.9% of the ball was hitting stump; ie one of those where the technology confirms 100% in its error margin he was out, but the rules for some reason put the margin higher.

Sydney was another test where Malan made a 50, but he was dropped at least once by memory. Cummins I think gave him a thunderous short ball that knocked him over. He wore a few he picked late, and I think he gloved one for four just passed the diving keeper, and looped one glove desperately short of the close fielder. He also benefitted from another run out going his way when Paine's throw to Lyon was way off target with him short of his ground.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:28 am

If, say Warner smashed the stumps at Perth before he makes a score just like Lyon did to Vince, and one of the drops sticks elsewhere, Vince and Malan might of had pretty similar series. Not saying Vince is test class, because he has issues that hold him back, but considering how friendly these pitches were and the fact Malan got all the fortune go for him, on quicker pitches with more life, I am inclined to think Malan is going to struggle.

For all the fortune, he averages 33 having played half those games in conditions where Id back batsman to flourish
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:47 am

Vince and Stoneman keep their places for NZ somehow, with Liam Livingstone and Mark Wood added. Ballance, Curran and Ball dropped. Stokes is also named in the squad, but that doesn't mean anything.

Vince probably benefited from the fact that this tour is back-to-back with the Australian one.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 am

My selection is leave Vince out, but if he was (left out), where is the top order? From the above post there's still no reserve opener, and no number three- unless LL debuts in that position.

Pleased Livingstone gets a chance though.

Not sure about Wood in Tests, either on his playing or injury records.

Sensible to leave out Ballance and Ball just as it was unexpected that they went to the Ashes. As for Curran, welcome to the asylum.
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