There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:21 am

Actually glad to see them vowing not to press the panic button (remains to be seen what they actually do , of course)
Unlike 2013/14 this doesn't seem like a great team declining as several key members lost their skills/motivation/fitness simultaneously ...more a "not quite there yet " team going to a hostile environment , deprived rather dramatically of their best player , and not performing up to their best - or anywhere near it , actually. One or two players may well be close to their sell by date ; but perhaps the most harmful failures (apart from the non-appearance of Big Ben) have been the lack of impact from Root and Moeen - both of whom should be in their prime.

New players should and will come through : whether Cook , say , decides to go on or not it will be down to runs scored not past records as to whether he retains his place in the medium term ( I doubt he'd be ditched before the next home series) ; and the replacement bowlers for Broad and Anderson will need to sort themselves out sooner or later....oddly enough it is beginning to look as if Jimmy may end up outlasting his younger colleague . Or this year could be a glitch ...I would never be in too much haste to usher top class players out the door unless and until you have the replacements lined up.
Which is not the same as saying hang on to the former stars for ever.

Guess what I'm really saying is despite a heavy defeat they'd be better off trying to fill the holes one by one rather than just swinging an axe to appease the masses. Was there an element of that in cutting KP loose four years ago ? (Obviously in that case there were other factors at work. But that separation , on top of the other departures , left perhaps too many gaps and the evidence is that filling them all is not something that has yet been managed successfully. Have they learned from that experience? )

Bayliss has done well with the white ball teams. How much is down to him and how much to Morgan and the happy coincidence of a number of fine exponents of limited overs cricket being around at once I am not sure...but I think it is fair to suggest that his Test record is decidedly mixed : if the ECB were to split the role in the near future then I would indeed fancy Collingwood as a great candidate for the Test job. Wonder what he feels himself ?
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby m@tt » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:07 pm

alfie wrote:Bayliss has done well with the white ball teams. How much is down to him and how much to Morgan and the happy coincidence of a number of fine exponents of limited overs cricket being around at once I am not sure...but I think it is fair to suggest that his Test record is decidedly mixed : if the ECB were to split the role in the near future then I would indeed fancy Collingwood as a great candidate for the Test job. Wonder what he feels himself ?


Split-coaches shouldn't be ruled out. However both would need to be truly comfortable with their role and not just say they are. The last time we tried it, Giles found it wasn't a 50:50 role - Flower would decide on rest period for Test players and that naturally impacted upon selection for ODIs and T20s.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:59 pm

alfie wrote: if the ECB were to split the role in the near future then I would indeed fancy Collingwood as a great candidate for the Test job. Wonder what he feels himself ?

Oh, he wants it, I think.

he'll get it too, when the time is right. I'd like to see him have a spell as head coach of Durham first, but I'm becoming resigned to the fact that the England job will come too soon for that.... which is a shame for him, for us, and for England too
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:01 am

FInd it madness for Bayliss job to be questioned, particularly when England have struggled in away tests.

Fault should lie at the non playing and coaching entity, particularly selections and pre-tour preparation. To do a marquee tour of India and not have any warm up matches is a joke, you wouldn't see the British and Irish Lions tour New Zealand and play their 1st test without a match. If Australia can't be bothered to field a decent 2nd team for a warm up game, surely it would be better for England to ferry eleven associate players for a match and pay them for the privelege.

There is too much non playing and coaching management in Team England, to a point it is affecting the domestic game. What does Strauss and Harrison realistically offer other than to make changes for the sake of it? The City Based T20 tournament comes at expense to the 50 over game, becoming a 2nd rate competition. The standard between List A and ODI cricket just widens because the best white ball players are involved in City T20 and England are weakened come the 2023 World Cup.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby The Professor » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:32 pm

Players I would have selected before Tom Curran:

Ben Coad (In much better form than Curran)
Saqib Mahmood (As above....and I believe is with the Lions)
Ravi Patel (really good young talent)
Ryan Sidebottom (Not a wind up....would genuinely have offered something)
Jamie Porter (Will play for England one day so why not)

Need I go on.......(because I can)
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:38 pm

At least he's the first choice in his family.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:05 pm

Why are we suggesting more fast medium / medium fast bowlers? Sure, they work at home but if we actually intend on beating top sides away from home it’s the last thing the side needs.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:31 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:At least he's the first choice in his family.

he's not even the best in his family!

couldn't resist it, given the series he's playing in
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:42 am

The Professor wrote:Players I would have selected before Tom Curran:

Ben Coad (In much better form than Curran)
Saqib Mahmood (As above....and I believe is with the Lions)
Ravi Patel (really good young talent)
Ryan Sidebottom (Not a wind up....would genuinely have offered something)
Jamie Porter (Will play for England one day so why not)

Need I go on.......(because I can)


Ben Coad would get absolutely mullered in Australia, can't beat batsmen for pace. Bowling 78-79mph in bright sunshine on a flat deck with a Kookaburra at the likes of Davey Warner and Steve Smith is a whole lot different to using a Dukes ball under cloudy skies at country trundlers.

Making an international debut at Australia is as hard as it gets, if Curran doesn't disgrace himself in the remaining Ashes tests he will do well in future. If anything getting an England call up will prolong Curran's career because Surrey have a tendency to overbowl their opening pace bowlers.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:Why are we suggesting more fast medium / medium fast bowlers? Sure, they work at home but if we actually intend on beating top sides away from home it’s the last thing the side needs.

People always suggest wood but his strike rate in test cricket is terrible

A bit of pace is good but you still need to move the ball to get good players out

English cricket is at a low ebb at the moment

Root, stokes and Jimmy are keeping the ship afloat but prospects don't look good

Stoneman and malan are showing promise but only woakes has shown form with the ball other than Jimmy and broad in the last few years and that is only in English conditions

We are in big trouble when Jimmy hangs up his boots

We desperately need a spinner and either a bowler who can reverse it or a tremlett like bounce bowler
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:01 pm

Stoneman and Malan are definitely showing they are worth persisting with. Vince on the other hand seems to have learnt nothing from his previous run in the side and simply isn’t good enough, how hard can it be to work out that he needs to stop flashing at deliveries outside his off stump until he is actual set? Root should clearly be batting at three but seems a bit selfish in that regard.

The real issue is the lack of Stokes and Ali’s complete loss of form in the engine room. Root at three and Malan at four just makes a very obliviously more sensible order, looking for a number 6 or 7 to fit in to the side.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:27 am

Making_Splinters wrote:Stoneman and Malan are definitely showing they are worth persisting with. Vince on the other hand seems to have learnt nothing from his previous run in the side and simply isn’t good enough, how hard can it be to work out that he needs to stop flashing at deliveries outside his off stump until he is actual set? Root should clearly be batting at three but seems a bit selfish in that regard.

The real issue is the lack of Stokes and Ali’s complete loss of form in the engine room. Root at three and Malan at four just makes a very obliviously more sensible order, looking for a number 6 or 7 to fit in to the side.

Problem Vince has is that his greatest strength is also his greatest weakness

He plays some lovely cover drives, but he seems unable to stop himself from driving at balls that aren't half volleys
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:18 am

Always interesting when big changes are afoot and the press have led us to believe that they will be coming in NZ. Is this how they stand?

For the drop: Ballance/Vince/Ball
Reason for apprehension: Stoneman/
Need a good match soon: Moeen/Curran/Broad/Woakes/Crane/Foakes
On the plane: Cook/Root/Bairstow/Anderson/Overton/Malan
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:27 am

And those coming in?

On the plane: R.Jones/Jennings/Livingstone
On standby: Finn/Bess/Garton/Wood/Helm/Westley
Long shot: Clarke/Davies/Gubbins/Lawrence/Mahmood/Porter/Leach
Daydreaming: Coughlin/Duckett/Virdi
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby rich1uk » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:45 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Always interesting when big changes are afoot and the press have led us to believe that they will be coming in NZ. Is this how they stand?

For the drop: Ballance/Vince/Ball
Reason for apprehension: Stoneman/
Need a good match soon: Moeen/Curran/Broad/Woakes/Crane/Foakes
On the plane: Cook/Root/Bairstow/Anderson/Overton/Malan


i wouldn't have had Ballance in the squad for the Ashes but not sure how they can leave him out for NZ when he hasn't had a game, same with Foakes, even more so with Foakes as he wasn't really a controversial selection to begin with

Broad is the interesting one for me, i've always been a big defender of him and thought he actually bowled better in the first 2 tests than his figures suggested but he is coming off his worst year statistically since his first year as a regular

i know he is injured now but Woakes was my biggest disappointment in this series
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