There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:24 pm

So a quick bit of googling reveals that the police are apparently going to announce whether or not Stokes is to be charged this week, and if the answer is no, he will be flown to Australia immediately. The word is that he may be in the team for Perth if that's the case, having served what will amount to a two-test ban.

The Aussie public will not like that at all, but if the police find no criminal charges, then two tests is the same as Warner got for decking Joe Root, so I can't see how they can object. The video to me looks pretty damning, but we are not privy to the full facts of the case.

Of course, it's a big if at this point. The video that looks pretty damning could turn out to be, in fact, pretty damning. What sort of sentence could Stokes be looking at if found guilty of assault (assuming he pleads guilty)? Is jail time a possibility, or is it more likely to be a fine and a suspended sentence? Any lawyers out there?
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 2331
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:00 am

Well, not me. But surely once the police have finished, the ECB have to consider a suspension.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 53997
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:25 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Well, not me. But surely once the police have finished, the ECB have to consider a suspension.


With the Ashes on the line? You have more faith in the ECB possessing any scruples or principles than I do, AC.
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 2331
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:41 am

I expect it'll be forgotten. But it shouldn't be.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 53997
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:18 am

bigfluffylemon wrote: Of course, it's a big if at this point. The video that looks pretty damning could turn out to be, in fact, pretty damning. What sort of sentence could Stokes be looking at if found guilty of assault (assuming he pleads guilty)? Is jail time a possibility, or is it more likely to be a fine and a suspended sentence? Any lawyers out there?


Its difficult to paint an exact picture without knowing the extent of the victims injury. The single biggest factor in how assault cases are decided or charged will rest in the nature and extent of the injury to the victim. If the punch drew blood, broke a bone or cracked a tooth, then the seriousness cranks up. Assuming its a standard sore head from a blow, which I would think is most likely, then the court will probably charge him with a section 47 ABH. Its likely he could be charged with common assault with battery, but the nature of that video suggests the punch was far more likely to cause actual bodily harm than a mere throw away scuffle, as he does hunt the guy down when the other has stopped.

Once the police charge him, the courts essentially will try to categorize the offence into three varying scopes with different punishments. The first would be greater levels of actual bodily harm with greater culpability or intention/recklessness. The second would be serious greater levels with less culpability. The third is less harm, less culpability. The resultant punishment reduces with each category. In deciding the levels of harm, they will look at the actual injury and usually take into account if the nature of the incident was repeated or sustained. In deciding culpability, they will look at how premeditated it was, how much the assailant was looking to cause the damage inflicted, was he armed, was the victim targeted for sexuality or race, was the victim vulnerable. Low culpability is also taking into account provocation, subordinate to the initial actions, and people who are more likely misjudging their actions on excessive self defence.

Its arguable that in the most extreme case, Stokes knocked his tooth out or gave him a serious concussion, and that when he attacks the guy on the floor and later punches him as he is trying to retreat, one could argue the damage and culpability is high because hes attacking a vulnerable person, but that would seem very extreme interpretation. Much more likely, the court would accept he was provoked and that the damage was not that serious, and this is a low level offence.

Once that category is established, the court will take a mostly predetermined tariff punishment. Cases of category 1 (high damage, full intention to cause it), the court will be looking 1 and a half years in jail, depending on circumstances, a maximum of 3 years, a lowest 1 year. Category 2 offences (high damage, less intention) looking 6 months as par, up to a year worst case, community service best case. Category 3 is a fine and community service, length of which is decided on severity.

In deciding the scope inside each category of offence (ie is it 1 or 3 years in prison for Cat 1) you then look at the victims past record, was it a single blow or repeated, where there other people present like children that might have affected the attackers actions, where and when the offence was made, circumstances etc. Has the attacker shown remorse and seeked behavioral help. Has he subjected himself willfully to the law, and helped police. Is it an isolated incident in the attackers life. Essentially, they will look at everything, but its key to note that this does not help the actual charge being levied, only the punishment inside the bracket already predetermined. After that is decided, the only really relevant thing is whether or not the victim pleaded guilty, which can reduce the punishment further.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 23700
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby sussexpob » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:24 am

If I had to guess, the worst case scenario is the lower end of a Cat 2. Best case is lower end cat 3. Id be hugely shocked if he went to prison as a first offence. He will get a fine and maybe a few hours community service, probably have to turn up to a few council bin collections or teach kids how to bat in a few schools, and it will be the end of it.

Obviously, if it turns out the other guy needed more treatment to a bad injury than the press indicated, it changes. But I doubt it.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 23700
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Making_Splinters » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Personally, even if Stokes isn't charged I would not take him to Australia. He's not exactly known for a calm demeanour and potentially 15 days in the field with the press, opposition and crowds all going after him simply isn't worth it for his health.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10123
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:49 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:So a quick bit of googling reveals that the police are apparently going to announce whether or not Stokes is to be charged this week

Can I assume that they haven't?
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 29876
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC
I've given up football

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby captaincolly » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:53 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:So a quick bit of googling reveals that the police are apparently going to announce whether or not Stokes is to be charged this week

Can I assume that they haven't?

No. It seems to be taking a ridiculous amount of time to make the decision. I still think the delay suggests no charges are likely but time will tell.
captaincolly
 
Posts: 22135
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:47 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, England

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:58 pm

better that England go 3-0 down before he heads over.... that way we can blame someone else for the way England wimped their way to a series defeat
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 29876
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC
I've given up football

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby captaincolly » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:06 pm

Durhamfootman wrote:better that England go 3-0 down before he heads over.... that way we can blame someone else for the way England wimped their way to a series defeat

Yep. Good plan!
captaincolly
 
Posts: 22135
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:47 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, England

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:04 pm

always need a plan that refuses to give Australia any credit at all

we woz robbed!
2017 Open Golf FL
2016 Australia-SouthAfrica test FL
2016 County Championship D1 FL
2016 Indian Premier League FL
2015 County Fantasy Manager
2015 Big Bash League FL
2014 WI-England test and ODI FL
2014 County Championship D2 FL
2013 County Championship D2 FL
2012 Twenty20 Cup FL
Durhamfootman
 
Posts: 29876
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: Chester-le-Street
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC
I've given up football

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:10 pm

sussexpob wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote: Of course, it's a big if at this point. The video that looks pretty damning could turn out to be, in fact, pretty damning. What sort of sentence could Stokes be looking at if found guilty of assault (assuming he pleads guilty)? Is jail time a possibility, or is it more likely to be a fine and a suspended sentence? Any lawyers out there?


Its difficult to paint an exact picture without knowing the extent of the victims injury. <snip> loads of helpful and interesting information <snip>


Just saw this, thanks sussex. Very informative.

I see Stoke's controversial return to cricket resulted in 2 runs and figures of 0-49 off 9 overs. Canterbury shouldn't have bothered...
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 2331
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby backfootpunch » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:57 pm

bigfluffylemon wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote: Of course, it's a big if at this point. The video that looks pretty damning could turn out to be, in fact, pretty damning. What sort of sentence could Stokes be looking at if found guilty of assault (assuming he pleads guilty)? Is jail time a possibility, or is it more likely to be a fine and a suspended sentence? Any lawyers out there?


Its difficult to paint an exact picture without knowing the extent of the victims injury. <snip> loads of helpful and interesting information <snip>


Just saw this, thanks sussex. Very informative.

I see Stoke's controversial return to cricket resulted in 2 runs and figures of 0-49 off 9 overs. Canterbury shouldn't have bothered...

That's pretty economical for stokes tbf haha
2011 pak vs sl odi fantasy guru 2012 Pak vs SL test fantasy guru
2012 NZ vs SA test fantasy guru 2015 Australia vs NZ test fantasy guru
2012 masters golf fantasy guru 2015 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka combined fantasy guru
2011/12 premier league(external) fantasy guru
2012 Eng vs WI test fanstasy guru
euro 2012 (external) fantasy league guru

"I'll tell you what pressure is. Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse. Playing cricket is not."- Keith Miller
backfootpunch
 
Posts: 5038
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 5:25 pm
Team(s) Supported: england, warwickshire, birmingham city

Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:46 pm

Hales will not be charged by the police.

Stoneman and Malan showing something in this series.

I still doubt Vince is gonna make it.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 53997
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest