There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:08 pm

Interesting thought. It goes against the views of the Bellievers, who want their man at three so he doesn't run out of partners.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby hopeforthebest » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:32 pm

How often did KP display any nous.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby braveneutral » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:49 am

Very interesting. I think the point about them not making the step up is vital and the mention of the flaws of central contracts plays a part. If you can't get in the team bar drastic circumstances there is far more pressure when you finally do get a go.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:16 am

It might be that there is a difference in playing a part for an emerging team, rather than being a newcomer in an established team. Though you'd hope the coaches would deal with stuff like that. I think central contracts aren't a factor here. They're necessary. And they should make planning easier. Lions cricket should help. My feeling, that I've mentioned for a while (so sorry) is that teams get worn out through travelling. And that teams need to gently evolve.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Chris de Burgh » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:44 am

D/L wrote:
Alviro Patterson wrote:Ages rounded up

17. Brad Taylor
19. Dominic Sibley
21. Alex Lees, Shiv Thakor
23. Azeem Rafiq (future England captain)
26. Alex Wakely
27. Laurie Evans
28. Chris Rushworth

74. Geoff Boycott

Considering the abject performance so far from some of England's batsmen he'd likely do better if called up again now :lmao
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:15 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:...I think central contracts aren't a factor here. They're necessary. And they should make planning easier...

Apart from their tendency to restrict chances for new talent, thereby leading to some players being selected beyond their play by date, central contracts also tend to promote complacency amongst the players who have them.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:13 pm

IMO if the core members of the team perform well then England selectors will look wise again. I expect Cook, KP, Trott, Bell to be back in runs.Bowling lineup is performing relatively much better at the moment.They have failed to replace Flintoff and that's been a major failure because it been years since Freddie retired.Whether you blame the selectors or the all rounders is a different matter though. If the allrounder is of good quality then they can play a bit with the team combo to tackle the lack of quality/form in batting/bowling department.To help get the team better the selectors must get a continuous run imo and they should be watching domestic matches or getting unbiased feedback from the county coaches.There is also no harm in sitting along with the administrators of various counties and planning the development of youth cricketers so that they get much better quality for international team.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Kim » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:27 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:IMO if the core members of the team perform well then England selectors will look wise again. I expect Cook, KP, Trott, Bell to be back in runs.Bowling lineup is performing relatively much better at the moment.They have failed to replace Flintoff and that's been a major failure because it been years since Freddie retired.Whether you blame the selectors or the all rounders is a different matter though. If the allrounder is of good quality then they can play a bit with the team combo to tackle the lack of quality/form in batting/bowling department.To help get the team better the selectors must get a continuous run imo and they should be watching domestic matches or getting unbiased feedback from the county coaches.There is also no harm in sitting along with the administrators of various counties and planning the development of youth cricketers so that they get much better quality for international team.


They do all that now ADi. Meet with all the coaches preseason and to watch every county at least twice during it. They also liaise closely with the umpires.

Re youth development one of the problems they have now is that the standard of second eleven cricket has fallen dramatically - for a variety of reasons - so kids are coming through without a real base to work on.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:46 pm

Kim wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:IMO if the core members of the team perform well then England selectors will look wise again. I expect Cook, KP, Trott, Bell to be back in runs.Bowling lineup is performing relatively much better at the moment.They have failed to replace Flintoff and that's been a major failure because it been years since Freddie retired.Whether you blame the selectors or the all rounders is a different matter though. If the allrounder is of good quality then they can play a bit with the team combo to tackle the lack of quality/form in batting/bowling department.To help get the team better the selectors must get a continuous run imo and they should be watching domestic matches or getting unbiased feedback from the county coaches.There is also no harm in sitting along with the administrators of various counties and planning the development of youth cricketers so that they get much better quality for international team.


They do all that now ADi. Meet with all the coaches preseason and to watch every county at least twice during it. They also liaise closely with the umpires.

Re youth development one of the problems they have now is that the standard of second eleven cricket has fallen dramatically - for a variety of reasons - so kids are coming through without a real base to work on.



Okay Kim, i was not aware of that practice and hence suggested it should be done from whatever i have experienced at club cricket and putting myself in selectors place.

I am not sure whether the youth cricket structure is same as that we have been through here.So cannot comment on that. Maybe you can or CF can say more about it as he is part of your country's cricketing system.How all that be be tweaked to have much better developed resources for the future.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Kim » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:12 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:
Kim wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:IMO if the core members of the team perform well then England selectors will look wise again. I expect Cook, KP, Trott, Bell to be back in runs.Bowling lineup is performing relatively much better at the moment.They have failed to replace Flintoff and that's been a major failure because it been years since Freddie retired.Whether you blame the selectors or the all rounders is a different matter though. If the allrounder is of good quality then they can play a bit with the team combo to tackle the lack of quality/form in batting/bowling department.To help get the team better the selectors must get a continuous run imo and they should be watching domestic matches or getting unbiased feedback from the county coaches.There is also no harm in sitting along with the administrators of various counties and planning the development of youth cricketers so that they get much better quality for international team.


They do all that now ADi. Meet with all the coaches preseason and to watch every county at least twice during it. They also liaise closely with the umpires.

Re youth development one of the problems they have now is that the standard of second eleven cricket has fallen dramatically - for a variety of reasons - so kids are coming through without a real base to work on.



Okay Kim, i was not aware of that practice and hence suggested it should be done from whatever i have experienced at club cricket and putting myself in selectors place.

I am not sure whether the youth cricket structure is same as that we have been through here.So cannot comment on that. Maybe you can or CF can say more about it as he is part of your country's cricketing system.How all that be be tweaked to have much better developed resources for the future.



This is long and very Warwickshire but explains how the system works - http://www.spinoffcricket.com/wp-conten ... w_res1.pdf
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby m@tt » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:18 pm

I really don't know what to suggest... Usually you can identify a couple of weak links which are causing a team to not reach the necessary level to compete. After the 1.5 games so far (which is still, after all, only 1.5 game, but the team just looks completely mentally shot) it is more a case of identifying the strong links.

It has been an embarrassment.

Sadly, it is making me doubt Flower. It is like Fletcher before him, and also Woodward of our rugby team (and going back even further, even the great Alf Ramsey). They reach the pinnacle with teams that will go down in the history of English sport, but the problems came afterwards.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby meninblue » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:25 pm

Kim wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:
Kim wrote:
clubcricketeradi wrote:IMO if the core members of the team perform well then England selectors will look wise again. I expect Cook, KP, Trott, Bell to be back in runs.Bowling lineup is performing relatively much better at the moment.They have failed to replace Flintoff and that's been a major failure because it been years since Freddie retired.Whether you blame the selectors or the all rounders is a different matter though. If the allrounder is of good quality then they can play a bit with the team combo to tackle the lack of quality/form in batting/bowling department.To help get the team better the selectors must get a continuous run imo and they should be watching domestic matches or getting unbiased feedback from the county coaches.There is also no harm in sitting along with the administrators of various counties and planning the development of youth cricketers so that they get much better quality for international team.


They do all that now ADi. Meet with all the coaches preseason and to watch every county at least twice during it. They also liaise closely with the umpires.

Re youth development one of the problems they have now is that the standard of second eleven cricket has fallen dramatically - for a variety of reasons - so kids are coming through without a real base to work on.



Okay Kim, i was not aware of that practice and hence suggested it should be done from whatever i have experienced at club cricket and putting myself in selectors place.

I am not sure whether the youth cricket structure is same as that we have been through here.So cannot comment on that. Maybe you can or CF can say more about it as he is part of your country's cricketing system.How all that be be tweaked to have much better developed resources for the future.



This is long and very Warwickshire but explains how the system works - http://www.spinoffcricket.com/wp-conten ... w_res1.pdf


Thank you.I think correct questions were asked and the reply by the coach was impressive regrading the approach.I like such interviews.The strategy imo is very good.Not surprised there are so many Warwickshire players in the international England team or if they develop more cricketers in future for international team.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:40 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:How often did KP display any nous.


Rarely, his swashbuckling approach to batting is as much as a liability than an asset.

But put KP in a position where he comes in with England 4 down for few runs, he has no option but to play with nous.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:28 pm

All too bloody scientific.

Pick 'em on form. Worry about players getting past it when their performances start to tail off , and don't panic when good players have a couple of quiet games. Worth noting Australia's revival has been inspired by the return of a 36 year old wicket keeper and a 31 year old fast bowler enjoying a new lease of life.

Trott probably won't be back , sadly. So Bell (why the devil he should have any query on him is beyond me , he is at the peak of his form and looks a class above the rest !) has to move to three. Root can revert to 5/6 , where he should have been all along. Carberry has done enough to earn a little time opening , hopefully someone new will surface.
KP remains an enigma. He gets it back ...or he doesn't , and then Taylor or Ballance or ...
Bairstow should get a run in the side at six or tell him to shove off . He might have Prior's spot next week , but I don't
think he is a good enough keeper to be a long term gloveman , and hopefully Prior will come back.

Never again pick two spinners outside India/Pakistan etc.

Broad should continue , and so should Anderson , who is copping more criticism than he should. Yes he has been light for wickets so far , but he is comfortably the most economical of the bowlers and I noticed a bit of a lift in intensity second innings today. England need a reliable third seamer so he isn't forced to be a stock bowler. Bresnan is needed.
Finn back to school. Young enough to rise again. Stokes a prospect, hope he plays in Perth , but not batting at six.

Swann is a worry. I wouldn't play a spinner in Perth , so back to the nets and hope he bounces back for Melbourne . Reluctant to write him off after a great home summer , so let us not rush a decision ...Monty is not a realistic alternative away from the Asian pitches on which he thrives.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:35 pm

alfie wrote:...Bairstow should get a run in the side at six or tell him to shove off . He might have Prior's spot next week , but I don't think he is a good enough keeper to be a long term gloveman , and hopefully Prior will come back...

Evidence of Bairstow’s competence with the gloves is still a bit thin on the ground, However, Prior is nothing special, so to give the Bairstow the gloves wouldn’t be too much of a gamble, really.
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