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I don't know, while I think they're all technically good enough to bat in the top order, all three need to show some improved consistency and restraint before I'd move them up. Stokes, Bairstow and Ali all come out and bat like lunatics too often for me to have much faith in their ability to solve the stability issues we have. If it were to be any of them, I'd move Ali up and leave the other two where they are.

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Bairstow, Stokes and Moeen have consolidated their positions as Test bats and arguably made a case for moving up a spot each.

Not much point unless we're going to play six bowlers again though.

Possibly on a Bunsen at Sydney, even then I'd probably leave a seamer out and still play Stokes at 6.

Making_Splinters wrote:I don't know, while I think they're all technically good enough to bat in the top order, all three need to show some improved consistency and restraint before I'd move them up. Stokes, Bairstow and Ali all come out and bat like lunatics too often for me to have much faith in their ability to solve the stability issues we have.[/b] If it were to be any of them, I'd move Ali up and leave the other two where they are[/b].

Agree with this - though I rather fear Moeen would struggle at five in Australia ; another reason why I am dead against such tampering with the order.
In any case I hold to the view that if you think you need six bowlers you've basically accepted you are unable to bowl the other side out. And the sixth bowler just means none of them get too tired as the opposition runs up 600...

alfie wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:I don't know, while I think they're all technically good enough to bat in the top order, all three need to show some improved consistency and restraint before I'd move them up. Stokes, Bairstow and Ali all come out and bat like lunatics too often for me to have much faith in their ability to solve the stability issues we have.[/b] If it were to be any of them, I'd move Ali up and leave the other two where they are[/b].

Agree with this - though I rather fear Moeen would struggle at five in Australia ; another reason why I am dead against such tampering with the order.
In any case I hold to the view that if you think you need six bowlers you've basically accepted you are unable to bowl the other side out. And the sixth bowler just means none of them get too tired as the opposition runs up 600...

I think six bowlers is excessive, however when two of them are contributing as well as any batsman we've tried to bring into the side, then it's not really playing six bowlers.

Making_Splinters wrote:

alfie wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:I don't know, while I think they're all technically good enough to bat in the top order, all three need to show some improved consistency and restraint before I'd move them up. Stokes, Bairstow and Ali all come out and bat like lunatics too often for me to have much faith in their ability to solve the stability issues we have.[/b] If it were to be any of them, I'd move Ali up and leave the other two where they are[/b].

Agree with this - though I rather fear Moeen would struggle at five in Australia ; another reason why I am dead against such tampering with the order.
In any case I hold to the view that if you think you need six bowlers you've basically accepted you are unable to bowl the other side out. And the sixth bowler just means none of them get too tired as the opposition runs up 600...

I think six bowlers is excessive, however when two of them are contributing as well as any batsman we've tried to bring into the side, then it's not really playing six bowlers.

and gives England the opportunity to play Woody (assuming he can regularly jack the pace up above 90mph) and bowl him in 4 over bursts of wanton aggression in true Mitch 1 style, without having to rely on Moeen bowling excessively and economically throughout the innings.

Well Triple L has just made a potentially very timely double ton against Warwickshire batting at three.

Might go on tour. I expect England will pick the same squad for the next game.

There was talk that Crane would play in one game before the Ashes. Will that be at Lords? Who would he replace?

Slipstream wrote:There was talk that Crane would play in one game before the Ashes. Will that be at Lords? Who would he replace?

Probably on the belief Windies would be routed by now

I think we have to give another batsman a chance as Westley doesn't look to have learned how sides are targeting his technique. Malan may not look convincing but he has at least made adjustments.

Making_Splinters wrote:I think we have to give another batsman a chance as Westley doesn't look to have learned how sides are targeting his technique. Malan may not look convincing but he has at least made adjustments.

Malan has been out bowled or lbw in 4 of his 6 dismissals, this suggests a major problem with his technique for me. Hes also batted with the flair of geoff boycott. I am far from convinced.

There is something there in Westley out of the three. He looks the best of the newest batsman in the side, even though it hasnt manifested itself yet. Id stick with him at the moment.

sussexpob wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:I think we have to give another batsman a chance as Westley doesn't look to have learned how sides are targeting his technique. Malan may not look convincing but he has at least made adjustments.

Malan has been out bowled or lbw in 4 of his 6 dismissals, this suggests a major problem with his technique for me. Hes also batted with the flair of geoff boycott. I am far from convinced.

There is something there in Westley out of the three. He looks the best of the newest batsman in the side, even though it hasnt manifested itself yet. Id stick with him at the moment.

agree. Not too many knocking down the door either, can't keep chopping and changing after 2-3 tests, dosent do any good to anyone

sussexpob wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:I think we have to give another batsman a chance as Westley doesn't look to have learned how sides are targeting his technique. Malan may not look convincing but he has at least made adjustments.

Malan has been out bowled or lbw in 4 of his 6 dismissals, this suggests a major problem with his technique for me. Hes also batted with the flair of geoff boycott. I am far from convinced.

There is something there in Westley out of the three. He looks the best of the newest batsman in the side, even though it hasnt manifested itself yet. Id stick with him at the moment.

Westley currently reminds me of Vince, looks good when he plays his shots but that's about it. Malan has worked on his stance to allow him to better prevent being yorked and actually showed some application. Westley's dismissal in the last test where he wildly swung at a ball that he should have left alone reminds me of how Lyth ended up, completely in the wrong mindset.

sussexpob wrote:

Making_Splinters wrote:I think we have to give another batsman a chance as Westley doesn't look to have learned how sides are targeting his technique. Malan may not look convincing but he has at least made adjustments.

Malan has been out bowled or lbw in 4 of his 6 dismissals, this suggests a major problem with his technique for me. Hes also batted with the flair of geoff boycott. I am far from convinced.

There is something there in Westley out of the three. He looks the best of the newest batsman in the side, even though it hasnt manifested itself yet. Id stick with him at the moment.

Interesting. For once I find myself (at least partially) agreeing with Sussex here

I am very glad to see Westley getting another chance at Lord's as there is something I also like about him.

BUT : if you think Malan has technical issues (I'm not so sure he has a particular weakness other than perhaps being only marginally good enough - though he has done enough to stay for now) surely you must recognize Westley has a huge problem with his over reliance on playing to leg and bat therefore not coming through straight - his efforts to counteract this so far have seen him caught behind instead of lbw but he still needs a lot of work if he's to succeed at this level. I hope he does well at Lord's and gets time to work with the batting coach before Australia but I think he is on a knife edge at the moment.

sussexpob wrote:

Slipstream wrote:There was talk that Crane would play in one game before the Ashes. Will that be at Lords? Who would he replace?

Probably on the belief Windies would be routed by now

True but Bayliss is saying England have to see the pitch at Lords before deciding. We can look at the pitch for days but really don't have a clue what it is going to do, what happens at the toss and what the weather is going to be like. All three things happen after they have decided on the team. Just play your best XI. I think that would include Roland-Jones at his home ground. He does offer something different to the other seamers and the West Indies haven't seen him yet. I would be surprised if he is selected though.