There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:44 pm

D/L wrote:
alfie wrote:...Bairstow should get a run in the side at six or tell him to shove off . He might have Prior's spot next week , but I don't think he is a good enough keeper to be a long term gloveman , and hopefully Prior will come back...

Evidence of Bairstow’s competence with the gloves is still a bit thin on the ground, However, Prior is nothing special, so to give the Bairstow the gloves wouldn’t be too much of a gamble, really.


In fairness to Bairstow he is improving with the gloves (took 8 catches in a recent game against Middlesex and conceded 1 bye).
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:49 pm

Alviro Patterson wrote:
D/L wrote:
alfie wrote:...Bairstow should get a run in the side at six or tell him to shove off . He might have Prior's spot next week , but I don't think he is a good enough keeper to be a long term gloveman , and hopefully Prior will come back...

Evidence of Bairstow’s competence with the gloves is still a bit thin on the ground, However, Prior is nothing special, so to give the Bairstow the gloves wouldn’t be too much of a gamble, really.


In fairness to Bairstow he is improving with the gloves (took 8 catches in a recent game against Middlesex and conceded 1 bye).



I agree he is worth a try. He kept well in the NSW game , and I don't have a problem with him in the role ...just feel he is more likely to eventually fit in as a pure batsman , though I know many disagree. Would really like to see him get a chance while all these others are failing , because I think he has his share of guts...
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:57 pm

England could do with Bairstow's fight and determination right this minute, most of the current squad just look weak.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:08 pm

alfie wrote:Trott probably won't be back , sadly. So Bell (why the devil he should have any query on him is beyond me , he is at the peak of his form and looks a class above the rest !)


You're post doesn't really contrast with mine a great deal. I said we need a long term replacement for Trott, and I had Bell in my list of players to take us forward into the foreseeable future. Any query is regarding his age. The first post was just an invitation to look at possible evolution of the side, not a suggestion we start a revolution.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby alfie » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
alfie wrote:Trott probably won't be back , sadly. So Bell (why the devil he should have any query on him is beyond me , he is at the peak of his form and looks a class above the rest !)


You're post doesn't really contrast with mine a great deal. I said we need a long term replacement fo Trott, and I had Bell in my list of players to take us forward into the foreseeable future. Any query is regarding his age. The first post was just an invitation to look at possible evolution of the side, not a suggestion we start a revolution.



Peace , Arthur ...I really don't greatly disagree. You just confused me a bit with all those italics and slashes :)

(Have had a few drinks - well quite a lot , actually - at my cricket club this evening) Perhaps I can address your proposals more closely tomorrow with a clearer head...
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:17 pm

Yes my method of explaining what I meant was unnecessarily complicated. And as I'd been watching England suffer all night, might be a bit screwy.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby D/L » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:53 pm

I may be a little mellower watching the remainder of the test in warmer climes, in fact, very mellow indeed...

In the meantime, remember it's only a game (getting mellow already).

Paid my subs before I set off, by the way.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Slipstream » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:54 pm

alfie wrote:All too bloody scientific.

Pick 'em on form. Worry about players getting past it when their performances start to tail off , and don't panic when good players have a couple of quiet games. :clap Worth noting Australia's revival has been inspired by the return of a 36 year old wicket keeper and a 31 year old fast bowler enjoying a new lease of life.

Trott probably won't be back , sadly. So Bell (why the devil he should have any query on him is beyond me , he is at the peak of his form and looks a class above the rest !) has to move to three. Root can revert to 5/6 , where he should have been all along. Carberry has done enough to earn a little time opening , hopefully someone new will surface.
KP remains an enigma. He gets it back ...or he doesn't , and then Taylor or Ballance or ...
Bairstow should get a run in the side at six or tell him to shove off . He might have Prior's spot next week , but I don't
think he is a good enough keeper to be a long term gloveman , and hopefully Prior will come back.

Never again pick two spinners outside India/Pakistan etc. :clap

Broad should continue , and so should Anderson , who is copping more criticism than he should. Yes he has been light for wickets so far , but he is comfortably the most economical of the bowlers and I noticed a bit of a lift in intensity second innings today. England need a reliable third seamer so he isn't forced to be a stock bowler. :clap Bresnan is needed.
Finn back to school. Young enough to rise again. Stokes a prospect, hope he plays in Perth , but not batting at six.

Swann is a worry. I wouldn't play a spinner in Perth , so back to the nets and hope he bounces back for Melbourne . Reluctant to write him off after a great home summer , so let us not rush a decision ...Monty is not a realistic alternative away from the Asian pitches on which he thrives.

Apologies if this is crankier than usual but I feel a bit cranky this evening
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Durhamfootman » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:05 pm

In true Shanky style, this is my team for Melbourne, when we lose at Perth

Cook
Carbs
Borthwick (in Aus atm)
KP (bromide to be sent for his cups of tea asap)
Bell
Collingwood (Captain)(phone call away)
Mustard (wk)(also only a phone call away)
Bresnan
Broad
Anderson
Onions (in SA atm)

Of course England can only borrow these County Champions players for the winter. They can ssip off and find their own players for the summer series, but at least Durham will bail them out of the sh1t while there is nothing more important on.

Colly won't score any runs, you understand, but he will stop Australia scoring any, because he is one of the few England players, still playing, to actually understand how to play the *modded* game.




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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Alviro Patterson » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:17 pm

No Patterson DFM?
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Slipstream » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:22 pm

I think new players should be introduced one at a time. We seem to find one a year. The problem we have now is there are three at once Carberry, Root, Stokes with about the number 6 position tried by many. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

It is amazing that it's over two and a half years and England are still looking for a number 6. We don't know if it is going to be the same problem with number 2 yet. For the future Sam Robson?

2003 - Anderson
2004 - Bell
2005 - Pietersen
2006 - Cook
2007 - Broad
2008 - Swann
2009 - Bresnan, Trott
2010 - Carberry, Finn
2012 - Root
2013 - Stokes
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby hopeforthebest » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:32 pm

Slipstream wrote:I think new players should be introduced one at a time. We seem to find one a year. The problem we have now is there are three at once Carberry, Root, Stokes with about the number 6 position tried by many. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

It is amazing that it's over two and a half years and England are still looking for a number 6. We don't know if it is going to be the same problem with number 2 yet. For the future Sam Robson?

2003 - Anderson
2004 - Bell
2005 - Pietersen
2006 - Cook
2007 - Broad
2008 - Swann
2009 - Bresnan, Trott
2010 - Carberry, Finn
2012 - Root
2013 - Stokes


Woakes seems to be a forgotten man yet he showed promise with the bat at the Oval an didn't disgrace himself with the ball.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:47 pm

Slipstream wrote:I think new players should be introduced one at a time.


I agree with that. But we haven't found a reliable first team player since Trott in 2009. Maybe Root may come to be seen as one. If we had, the team would be in a better position. If Finn had delivered he would have been another. But it hasn't happened.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Slipstream » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:
Slipstream wrote:I think new players should be introduced one at a time.


I agree with that. But we haven't found a reliable first team player since Trott in 2009. Maybe Root may come to be seen as one. If we had, the team would be in a better position. If Finn had delivered he would have been another. But it hasn't happened.


Yes Root might be the next one after Trott but in the middle order.

I wouldn't have dropped Finn who is a wicket taker, s/r 48.3. Has taken wickets in every one of his 23 Tests. He should have kept his place after Trent Bridge. Woakes should have kept his place after the Oval.

I think any new player should be given a home series AND an away series to prove themselves unless of course if they are covering for an injured player but then should be next in the pecking order rather than picking players who have impressed in ODI series.
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Re: There may be troubles ahead: England selection issues.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:03 pm

Fair points. Finn has actually maintained reasonable stats throughout. Everyone forgets that England have been turning out fairly bland pitches for their bowlers for the last couple of years. If Finn had bowled on more helpful tracks, maybe he'd be in better shape to play in Australia.
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