Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming England?

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Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming England?

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:58 pm

In the late 90's I went to Northampton to watch Sussex play a one day game. That day Northants, on a dry end of summer pitch that was taking turn, fielded three spinners in their squad, all relative novices in a team that was lead by Matthew Hayden, an established legend of the game waiting to happen, and with two international seamers in their ranks. I had heard of Graham Swann before having read an article about him/Sales and Loye's potential at Northants, but had never heard of Jason Brown or Michael Davies. All three bowled very well as Northants restricted Sussex to a narrow total.... for a country struggling to find a spinner, it seemed like the future might be a little brighter.

Within 24 months Swann had bowled 5 overs in a ODI never to return for nearly 10 years, the press were criticising the selectors for picking Salisbury over Brown after a year in 2000 inside which he took 70 wickets at 20 in a championship season and toured Sri Lanka with the A team, relegating Davies to be released to Essex despite his generally impressive returns( Davies retired after amazingly being released by Essex the following year, taking 100 CC wickets @ 25!!! In a career which also saw him picked for the A Team around the same time).... in the middle of it all a young 18 year old lad from Bedford, one Monty Panesar, emerged on debut taking 4-11 for Northants.

In the space of three years Northants produced the best spinner England would have in decades, possibly the second best spinner inside that time, and two A team players that were very close to breaking the test team (Brown was only held up by a disastrous 2001 season when Northants were penalised for producing wicket taking wickets, and all bowlers toiled on the deadest of dead tracks).

This may be a very defined and extreme case, but this is also a very good example of the power of competition in the development of players. Swann was made to wait both at county level, and always had other aspiring players behind him. And while he was forced to wait, his performances stepping up to test cricket were almost seamless.

It is a growing concern for the English game that so few players since 2009 have come through, and while in other postings I have explained that my belief is that this has been caused by a new regime and a hyper inflated system, a recent article by Dobell (posted by HFTB) does at least draw me to something that is largely forgotten... that in 2009 the new rules to Kolpak came into force, and that the results could have also have a majorly negative impact on the county game!

Kolpak was always a dirty word from the start in the press; in 2004 the county system drew united breath at the impacts the influx of uncapped foreign talents could have on the game. The worry was that, with mercenaries flooding teams, there would be little left for English talent in terms of development chances. I am very dubious to have seen this occur in reality; while it is obvious that more non-English qualified talent got opportunities, surely the barriers were not an issue to those of true quality?

One of the most maligned of Kolpak signings has to go down as Jacques Rudolph, a man who’s presence after he signalled his intention to step away from South Africa to a pursue a career in England raised more than a few eyebrows. Rudolph was the epitome of the Saffer mercenary, turning his back on a failing international career with hopes to start again and potentially qualify for England. Rudolph’s presence at Yorkshire may have been controversial, but certainly didn’t stop a new generation of Yorkshire batsman come into the team. Root, Bairstow, Lyth and Balance have all come through in the time Rudolph was playing at Yorkshire, arguably also having benefitted from playing alongside an amazing county batsman and experienced test cap like Rudolph. His 5,500 runs @ 53 provided not only a marker to youngsters on what to aspire to, it also provided a level of standard across the competition that improved the game.

Yorkshire have an obvious history of producing talent, however, so the very presence of quality emerging here may not be a good yard stick for cricket in general. It is quite amusing to note though that, at the start of the 2011 when the county financial incentive system kicked in, they were hailed as having fielded an all-England born XI team by the Daily Mail under the banner “British is Best” in accordance with the press support for the golden new rules kicking in! They were relegated, and by the end of the year Ballance, Rudolph and the Saffer Brophy were 3 of their top 4 run averagers.

The ECB’s financial incentives for fielding home grown players had been passed in 2010 along with the stricter work permit rules all but put an end to Kolpak’s, increased further with the heightened international calendar meaning few capped players were available. The rules made the ECB able to penalise counties up to near 50% of their funding based on how many younger English guys played in the team. Many teams, like Derbyshire, were vocal that the rule meant they simply had to pick young English talent for financial survival, regardless of the competitive cost…. Derbyshire have only had one English born player average over 40 since 2009(who averaged 27 in his career), with their most consistent player a South African signed to an “entrepreneurial visa” on a clever technicality that has since been covered by the ECB and technically should not have been playing. So much for English under 26 talent coming to the fore. Even Chesney Hughes, who had a fine year 2010 when switching to the English county game, has seemingly digressed with the dearth of talent he is surrounded by.

Other notable counties like Leicestershire have also had to replace very competent county players with absolute filth. Joshua Cobb( 63 matches – average 23 with bat), Greg Smith (65 matches – 25 with bat), Alex Wyatt (53 wickets @36), James Sykes ( average 13 with bat/61 with ball), Nathan Buck (108 wickets @ 40.52), Robert Taylor (16 matches aver 20 with bat/45 with ball) are the sum of all the under 25 home grown players they have still in the team, an absolute atrocity in quality… the only under 26 worth keeping signed from the Unicorns in Nathan Eckersley… in Kolpak years they produced James Taylor and Stuart Broad. Its maybe understandable why Taylor in particular thought he needed to leave to further his career.

I think it is undeniable that the standards of county cricket continue to drop lower as time goes by. The problem is further compounded by the National teams sifting through players to sit in ODI or test squads and protecting their assets from playing all the time. Even at the top of the county championship as the deciding games came into play, some matches had as much as 6 players removed, either on England Lions/ODI/Test duty or playing for Ireland or Scotland. It made the end of the Championship farcical, and destroyed what should have been a fiercely competitive ending to the season.

If our English players are not being tested at county level then they are going to continue to feel the step up to test cricket too greatly. The ECB estimated that 53 new English players were given cricket under their Kolpak reshuffle, but if these players are only serving as average boosters for other players, or are being picked simply for money and not on merit, then having them in the system is not only useless, but hugely damaging for the whole system. If one English player was playing in a side of XI established county pro’s, arguably you are producing a much better player than someone destroying featherbed attacks of 20 year old trailists around for fun. We need intensity and fight in our county system, at the moment our players simply aren’t making the grade stepping up.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:37 pm

I'm not sure England players currently are, or will be selected from the county system in the way they were. Much comment was made of Root taking the opening spot of Compton.

For years now, England have been selected from their under 19 programme which feeds into the EPP and the Lions. Root (and now Stokes) were seen as players who had been groomed by national coaches from before that, back to the age of 13. There was a sense that Root was always going to play for England and he had been hothoused to that end.

Compton, on the other hand, came from entirely outside the system and hadn't played age group cricket for England. Some journalists felt that England weren't comfortable with that kind of selection anymore, someone who hadn't been assessed and processed since puberty. That feels an exaggeration to me.

I would have thought that however the CC can be strengthened would help produce better players. Though it might be difficult to attract the best players with competition for T20s around the world. But there seems to be a feeling around that England won't be bothered about that, and prefer to hothouse talent at a very young age.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:40 pm

By the way, whenever I've watched cricket on tv in recent years, which admittedly means limited overs, I've been really impressed by the quality in the county game. Though possibly players raise their games for the cameras.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:41 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:By the way, whenever I've watched cricket on tv in recent years, which admittedly means limited overs, I've been really impressed by the quality in the county game. Though possibly players raise their games for the cameras.


Limited overs is completely different as more county teams spend money on foreign talent, and the fielding etc has good... most domestic teams also can hit the ball.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby sussexpob » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:44 pm

As for the first point, sorry but I dont buy that at all.

The first argument is put simply, a 13 year old is not a finished article and performance against peers could be linked to anything as simple as growth rate. You look at the "next big thing" in any sport, and most never get heard of again... the Football League is a wash with 15 year old Man United Trialists that got to 17 and were released to Bishop Stortford.

The second is that the above still applies. Even if you select the players you want to take through the system, the system still tarnishes them with a quality they take forward.... if that quality and competition is low, then those players dont excel.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby DiligentDefence » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:32 pm

I understand the point you are making sp, but something had to be done about the number of Kolpak players. At one Northants v Leics game 11 players were not England qualified. The system has probably been tightened too much now which has led to the concerns you expressed.

On a different note, Davies came back from an A team tour and then developed the "yips", leading to his release and move to Essex. At that time many Northants felt that players' development was significantly harmed if they were involved in an A team tour.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby SaintPowelly » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:09 pm

Its a catch 22, too many Kolpaks ruin the game, but certain players have significantly improved the English game.

I can only really speak for Hampshire, but James Vince in particular has become a much better player since Neil McKenzie joined, and I would imagine Sussex batsmen ( now Glamorgan ) have benefited from having Murray Goodwin around.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby m@tt » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:49 pm

It is all about balance. A sensible amount of high quality overseas players can increase the quality and inspire younger players. Players like Hayden, McKenzie and Rudolph are/were all international players, and their presence was only going to be a positive. We need more of those players around, however the international schedule, county finances, and the draw of T20 leagues, prevents most international players from joining a County, though there are exceptions like Smith and Chanderpaul.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:51 pm

m@tt wrote:It is all about balance.



What is a balance? I mean for instance, what does an inferior English player add to a system once it is established he is never international class? Surely those picks in the system would be better given to better players, so that those who are a better class are being tested more, so that the International players coming back chasing form arent playing against pop gun attacks and are being tested and given a work out, so that the crowds get to see the best standards of cricket!
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:04 pm

DiligentDefence wrote:I understand the point you are making sp, but something had to be done about the number of Kolpak players. At one Northants v Leics game 11 players were not England qualified. The system has probably been tightened too much now which has led to the concerns you expressed


Dippenaar averaged 42 in over 100 ODI's and was a fine FC player in SA.....

Ackerman could have been a very good test player if he didn't have the misfortunate of playing against Murali in helpful conditions and debuted against Waqar and Akram at their peak... his 4 tests never justified his talent, he was as solid a county pro as one could hope for.

Du Preez would have played test cricket if injuried hadn't plagued his career.

Johannes van Der Wath would have played test cricket for most countries and was an excellent county pro.

Nicky Boje did play a lot of international cricket

Jermaine Lawson's action and subsequent injuries stopped his career, but arguably the best Windies bowler in the gap between Walsh and Roachs career

Andrew Hall was a very useful limited overs cricketer for South Africa and had a creditable test record if not a world beater.

Lance Klusener will go down as one of the greatest cricketers in limited overs history and should rightfully be credited with bringing forth the aggressive modern approach.....


Sounds like that would be a match I wanted to see.....full of quality. I wonder if we could say the same of the game this year? Not even in the same league of talent on show
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:20 pm

It's certainly a difficult question, having the best players possible playing raises the standard of the domestic game, but at the same time limiting the opportunities for English players is in no one's best interests.

One thing's for sure, we wouldn't have won the 2 Division with out our imports, we had 4 out of top five as foreign born players for chunks of the season.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby DiligentDefence » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:34 pm

Unfortunately that Northants team was less than the sum of its parts, and didn't achieve a great deal. Hall has been a great servant of the club and his batting has shown the way for the team. Van der Wath was certainly missed and the seasons after the new restrictions were tough. However last year was encouraging and the spirit within the team was good. I do agree that the current regulations are too restrictive but we'll have to disagree on a complete return to pre-incentive days.
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby SaintPowelly » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:25 pm

I remember the reaction Hampshire got for refusing to pick KP for 2010 Finals day, and that was a young English batsman ( Vince ) that would of been dropped for him.

There is too much made about foreign players, can you imagine, Barca being told Messi can't play because hes no Spanish or Rel Madrid with Ronaldo and Bale, counties should be able to play whoever they like, they are there to make money, NOT to produce for the ECB.

I would rather watch Neil McKenzie bat than Joe Gatting, and so would 99% of cricket fans
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Re: Is the lack of Kolpak and County Incentives harming Engl

Postby Alviro Patterson » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:30 pm

sussexpob wrote:
One of the most maligned of Kolpak signings has to go down as Jacques Rudolph, a man who’s presence after he signalled his intention to step away from South Africa to a pursue a career in England raised more than a few eyebrows. Rudolph was the epitome of the Saffer mercenary, turning his back on a failing international career with hopes to start again and potentially qualify for England. Rudolph’s presence at Yorkshire may have been controversial, but certainly didn’t stop a new generation of Yorkshire batsman come into the team. Root, Bairstow, Lyth and Balance have all come through in the time Rudolph was playing at Yorkshire, arguably also having benefitted from playing alongside an amazing county batsman and experienced test cap like Rudolph. His 5,500 runs @ 53 provided not only a marker to youngsters on what to aspire to, it also provided a level of standard across the competition that improved the game.

Yorkshire have an obvious history of producing talent, however, so the very presence of quality emerging here may not be a good yard stick for cricket in general. It is quite amusing to note though that, at the start of the 2011 when the county financial incentive system kicked in, they were hailed as having fielded an all-England born XI team by the Daily Mail under the banner “British is Best” in accordance with the press support for the golden new rules kicking in! They were relegated, and by the end of the year Ballance, Rudolph and the Saffer Brophy were 3 of their top 4 run averagers.


Not quite true.

Of the young batsmen Jonny Bairstow was a Yorkshire regular at the time Jacques Rudolph was playing, Gary Ballance and Joe Root didn't emerge until the 2011 season.

Yorkshire got relegated in 2011 because the senior batsmen (Brophy, Sayers, McGrath) didn't perform with the bat, 3 of the top 4 run scorers that year were actually the upcoming players of Jonny Bairstow (1015), Joe Root (937) and Gary Ballance (717). The trend continued in 2012 with Lyth (751), Root (731) and Ballance (613) as the top 4 runscorers as Yorkshire returned to Division 1.

In response to the original question, tightening up the kolpaks and overseas players has been a good thing for English cricket as a whole. Northamptonshire have embraced the changes and have developed a competent team mainly of local talent, Kent are bringing up some talented prospects, Derbyshire are changing their setup with an emphasis on elite level coaching. Even Yorkshire changed the coaching setup by bringing in Jason Gillespie and Paul Farbrace, who have made quick impacts. In turn the standard of County Cricket increases as the next generation of players are trained through modern methods.
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