Ben Stokes

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby captaincolly » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:39 pm

budgetmeansbudget wrote:He'd rather been sent down!

:lmao
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Slipstream » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:00 am

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On Tuesday, questions were being asked about the Crown Prosecution Service decision to charge with affray. It is an offence with very specific criteria needed to record a guilty verdict. The jurors were required to ask themselves four questions, and needed to answer 'yes' each time if Stokes was to be found guilty.

The final one appears key: 'Was the conduct of all of them (Stokes and Ryan Ali, also charged with affray), taken together, such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety?'

In other words, did Stokes and Ali frighten the general public, whether bystanders or passers-by? This is likely to be where the Crown case faltered.

The fight happened in the small hours on a largely deserted street; a policeman who intervened was not physically threatened; two people nearby continued searching for a taxi, untroubled. Who was around to scare? It was clear the prosecution was in turmoil when, shortly before the trial started, an attempt was made to charge Stokes with actual bodily harm.

This leaves the ECB in an invidious position. Stokes has been found not guilty, but the footage that brought the case to court remains. Unquestionably, that is Stokes, on film, punching a man to the ground. Unquestionably, that is Stokes, on film, continuing to behave aggressively when it is clear the fight is won. Unquestionably, that is Stokes, in court, admitting the events came at the end of a heavy drinking session following England duty.

He doesn't come out of it well; he just doesn't come out of it guilty.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby meninblue » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:11 am

Did he have Rabada's lawyer :hmmm
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:46 am

Peculiar if cliched article in the Guardian from the usually level headed Vic Marks suggesting that Stokes' reckless behaviour might stem from the feeling of invincibility that is in the nature of great players.

Which overlooks that the overwhelming majority of greats don't get involved in incidents like this and many pretty ordinary players do. Stokes is only a good player. More of a Jesse Ryder than a Rahul Dravid. There has been nothing in his career so far to suggest that he is an ubermensch that might be supinely supposed to operate by his own moral code. I think we can look elsewhere for signifiers. Alcohol abuse certainly, if obviously. This line of thinking is a bit offensive I think, and runs the risk of being accepted as mitigation. As if it was partly understandable for Boycott to assault a woman because he was a high scoring opening bat.

The Stokes camp seems to be pursuing the strategy that he has been wronged and has suffered and now has to get on with his life, like he's Eva Peron.

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:01 pm

captaincolly wrote:https://twitter.com/itvwestcountry/status/1029355376498692097?s=21
ITV News interview with the two gay men.



I cant remember which of the many articles I have read in the last 24 hours contained it, but one of the big mainstream daily news sites quoted the CPS yesterday, inside which the point was made that these two witnesses were so drunk, and their memories of events so bad, they were not called as witnesses by the prosecution nor defence based on the fact that everything they said was deemed flat out false, inconsistent with what evidence pointed towards, or even contradicted unanimously incontestable material facts.

Or more bluntly, everything they have said is a load of sh*te.

captaincolly wrote:Here are the questions the jurors used to reach the verdicts.
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/no ... y-15025641


I question whether or not the combination of asking someone whether or not they are "sure" or "have no doubt" places far too much of a high standard on jurors to find guilt. "Sure" is the generally accepted common law wording for jury guidance, but when placed next to the "no doubt" points, are we not asking juror's to be 100% certain on guilt to convict? There is a problem in my eyes with this direction, jurors do not have to be 100%, they can have minor doubts or uncertainties. Established legal precedents have in English common law continually, for about 300 years, quashed any judgement from future use that state the burden of proof to be so high. Practically, its impossible to prove a case to be 100% sound. Even things like DNA testing can never be 100%
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Peculiar if cliched article in the Guardian from the usually level headed Vic Marks suggesting that Stokes' reckless behaviour might stem from the feeling of invincibility that is in the nature of great players. Which overlooks that the overwhelming majority of greats don't get involved in incidents like this and many pretty ordinary players do. Stokes is only a good player. More of a Jesse Ryder than a Rahul Dravid. There has been nothing in his career so far to suggest that he is an ubermensch that might be supinely supposed to operate by his own moral code



Such invincibility is much to do with the lack of constructive criticism of the player over the years, as much as any inherent latent quality in the natural psychological make up of the player. The truth is, Stokes has done some reckless things in the past, and has continued to play the game and act personally in a way that only results from lack of accountability. Stokes came to the fore in a team that had rapidly changed, that needed a new hero. And that hero style narrative plays out all the time. He cops very little criticism for anything bad he does, even now he has yet to apologise for his actions, and that is enough. Take the T20 final over; how many people said afterwards "but he Stokes, his never say die attitude will help him bounce back"..... never say die attitude? In the biggest moment in his life he crumbled like a gingerbread biscuit dunked in hot tea. If anything, he proved in the biggest challenges or pressure situations, he failed to stand up miserably. Without a doubt, in my eyes, he served up the worst over in cricket history in my life time. A point no one seemed to ram home. The myth of him being a steely, infallible character; does it live up to scrutiny?

Marks and others, with articles like that, feed the narrative. Its no surprise he indulges in reckless behaviour as he gets off with it. The aforementioned treatment in comparison to KP is a key example. Had KP done what Stokes had done, his career would be over. Stokes is judged on a vastly more lenient stance than others. His performances are judged in far more positive lights. His position in the team almost unquestioned.

Chris Woakes now averages the same with the ball, and one run away with the bat. For all that their personalities add or take away from a team environment, and adding in the fact Woakes has been dropped and never really had a decent run of games that Stokes has, one would assume with common narratives that Stokes is even lucky Woakes isnt taking his place in the longer term. But for some reason, Stokes is seen as vastly superior.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:50 pm

People will accept a not guilty verdict and will judge solely on that, but the more that is released about this case, the more very pertinent questions about this trial and the actions of law administrators needs to be particularly scrutinized. I think its entirely justifiable to say imo that Stokes is only an innocent man because of an increasingly likely scenario of administrative bungling from the legal system. This should not be celebrated, and his treatment afterwards (Without an apology I add) should reflect this.

For a start, why was the treasury counsel called in to set the charge? I wonder, in the history of the legal system, whether the top chair of the old bailey's public prosecution team has ever been asked to rule on such a trivial matter as this. These barristers only ever get called in things like Fraud cases, which are often so complex jury trials are dismissed because the average person cant comprehend whats going on. But an ABH/affray? This makes no sense. Its a bit like your plumber calling Steve Hawking for his opinion on the physical science behind the pressure problems in your shower.

One could argue, maybe sensibly, that in the public interest it was right for it to go to a senior person; yet, it was deemed so serious and in the public interest, the barrister in question didnt even turn up to any of the pre-trial hearings. I mean, what the flaming f*ck has gone on here? Its either important enough to justify a senior persons time, and they take responsibility and full interest; or its not, and you let someone else equally capable to do it. Saying its important, but not important enough to show any interest..... no sense. Just bad policy and decision making.

The prosecution and the local CPS then finally sum up the balls to challenge this dumb decision to proceed with affray, but only at the last minute. The judge by then is obviously in a bad position, and knows the defence will spam the trial with calls they had no time. But the judge even says that the actions of the CPS have been an insult to their department.

Serious questions need to be asked why these decisions were made.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Slipstream » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:03 am

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby andy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:45 pm

Underwhelming return for Stokes after trial
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby backfootpunch » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:39 pm

andy wrote:Underwhelming return for Stokes after trial

Bowling is fine

His batting though has regressed considerably from where he was before he knocked that guy out
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby andy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:23 pm

Got through 7 overs with this knee injury, pace was around 82mph mark swung it around, decent
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby meninblue » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:46 pm

Tour of SL

187 runs in 6 innings.
5 wickets in 5 innings with lowest average per wicket (20.40) and lowest bowling sr of 37.2 among all bowlers from both teams.

There were two impact knocks by him and one impact spell.

Took 9 catches and dropped 2. Most players will have a bad catching ratio than that in slip position.
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