Ben Stokes

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:32 pm

At least he calmed down as soon as the lady police officer arrived.

I found it slightly amusing when he asked for the handcuffs to be loosened because he'd had operations on his hand. Punching a locker door comes to mind after getting a first baller!

You're right Sussex, Stokes' lawyer has his work cut out
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby bigfluffylemon » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:46 pm

Stokes has started to give evidence, and his version of events, especially that around the alleged banter/abuse directed towards the gay couple, is very different from the bouncer's.

I wonder if either or both of Kai Barry and William O'Connor will be called as witnesses. One would assume they'd have to be.

As an aside, it's quite common for people to have entirely different recollections of the same events. Human memory is notoriously fallible, and has been proven to be so in many experiments. People can be convinced that they remember things that never happened, or miss things that seem incredibly obvious when you are asked to pay attention/look for them. Part of the reason for this is that memory is not like a film being played back - it's reconstructive in nature. You build the images in your head of what happened from your internal narrative of them, not the other way around.

This is one of the problems with the legal system, and why an skilled lawyer can run rings around inexperienced witnesses, or ones who have not been well briefed, and make it appear that they have no idea what they do or don't remember.

Another issue is the timeframes involved. This incident happened last September. OK, it was a significant event, so those involved should have better recollection of it than an 'average' night, and will have been asked to provide their version of events multiple times to the police which improves recollection, but still. It's a long time ago, and people are going to be hazy on details. If you asked me what I was doing on a particular day/night last September, I wouldn't have a bleeding clue. I could look at the date and my typical schedule and infer where I probably was, but I certainly couldn't recall details. Heck, I probably couldn't tell you what I was doing on the evening of a week ago last Tuesday if the police came and asked me.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:55 am

bigfluffylemon wrote:Stokes has started to give evidence, and his version of events, especially that around the alleged banter/abuse directed towards the gay couple, is very different from the bouncer's.

I wonder if either or both of Kai Barry and William O'Connor will be called as witnesses. One would assume they'd have to be.


I know Hales is due to appear at some point, or it said as the trial began he was a witness, so one would expect them too. Think Hales ever looking lucky he didnt get charged with a lesser offence, especially after seemingly lying to the police about being there.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:06 am

I don't think any of the major players have been called to the stand to be cross examined yet, their police statements and interviews taken after their arrests were being relayed to the court yesterday afternoon.

All very different views of events weighted in their own favour obviously. Will be interesting to hear what Barry and O'Connors take on things is when they get called to the stand.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:52 pm

Judge has moved to find Ryan Hale not guilty of the charge!

None of the major players have taken the stand yet although Stokes is just about to.

I thought Hale was accused of threatening behaviour with a bottle at some stage.

Not even half way through, from just the evidence of statements and interviews his case has been thrown out by the judge, why the feck was he charged in the first place?

I will never ever understand the intracacies of the legal system, even my job is wrapped up in it, but I leave all that for other people to resolve.

I did have a go once, even prosecuted in court on occasion, but decided it was too much for my limited intelligence!
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:24 pm

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Judge has moved to find Ryan Hale not guilty of the charge!

Not even half way through, from just the evidence of statements and interviews his case has been thrown out by the judge, why the feck was he charged in the first place?



While those are the terms being reported from the press, its not actually true. The judge has no legal power to establish fact in a jury trial, hes only there to give rulings on law. In practical terms this means the judge cannot decide on guilt or an outcome, but manages the proceedings and advises the jury on what the law says, and what they should consider for the offence.

While its almost exclusively common for a judge to tell a jury what he would decide, the jury are not bound to accept the judges assessment. If they think Hale is guilty, he is guilty. Its extremely unlikely a jury would rule over a judge, so in essence you can say Hale has got off with it, but until the verdict is read, he's still on trial. Usually the judge at that point with give him the most lenient sentence possible, and the net effect is such trials always end in an appeal court with the verdict quashed.... so ruling over a judge simply means the public spend unnecessary time and money.

I guess in the judges opinion he views Hale as neither causing the fight, or being a main part. He said "no unlawful violence" was used, which would indicate he mitigates any violence on self defence. While there were two bottles, only one can be seen in the video. I guess it was Mr Ali who threw the bottle, and then Hale who cops the punch as a result. And if he retreats at the first opportunity and ends his part there, then it might be a fair assessment.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm

Stokes claiming his messed up hand is a result of a cricketing injury.... is that what they call punching a locker now
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:38 pm

sussexpob wrote:Stokes claiming his messed up hand is a result of a cricketing injury.... is that what they call punching a locker now

I guess the finger injuries are cricketing injuries, the locker injury was more of wrist/lower hand injury, but yes it is quite amusing to hear him talk about it.

I'm getting more surprised about how Hales has got away without getting charged with something with some of the evidence coming out this morning, and it seems his account of what happened maybe inaccurate, claiming he didn't turn up until the fight was over. The CCTV footage suggests that wasn't the case!
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:49 pm

budgetmeansbudget wrote:
sussexpob wrote:Stokes claiming his messed up hand is a result of a cricketing injury.... is that what they call punching a locker now

I guess the finger injuries are cricketing injuries, the locker injury was more of wrist/lower hand injury, but yes it is quite amusing to hear him talk about it.

I'm getting more surprised about how Hales has got away without getting charged with something with some of the evidence coming out this morning, and it seems his account of what happened maybe inaccurate, claiming he didn't turn up until the fight was over. The CCTV footage suggests that wasn't the case!


Well the point is an obvious lie, he is clearly seen in the CCTV kicking a guy in the head.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:00 pm

Well if I'm on the jury, I'm not going to believe a word he says when he takes the stand, in the same way as I'm going to ignore the bouncer's evidence for lying about the CCTV footage.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby KipperJohn » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:37 pm

For the record, if the reporting is correct, Ryan Hale was formally found not guilty after the judge’s ruling, discharged and left the dock.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:13 pm

KipperJohn wrote:For the record, if the reporting is correct, Ryan Hale was formally found not guilty after the judge’s ruling, discharged and left the dock.


The only news agency with the actual proper information is Sky.....

Judge Blair told jurors that he had considered whether they would be able to find that Mr Hale "used or threatened unlawful violence".

"There hasn't been any evidence whatsoever that he did so," the judge told them.

"The next thing you see him doing is taking his t-shirt off and putting it under the head of Ryan Ali, who has been knocked senseless to the road surface.

"I have come to the conclusion that I should exercise my responsibility of directing you that there is no case to answer against Ryan Hale, the third defendant.

"Upon analysis of the evidence, in terms of what the law would require to be proven, I have come to the conclusion that you cannot properly convict him of the charge of affray."

The court clerk directed Mr Hale to stand and asked the jury foreman: "Do you find him not guilty?"

The jury foreman replied: "Yes".

Ben Stokes began giving evidence on Thursday afternoon



So yeah, the decision was made by the Jury on advice of the judge.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:16 pm

Who is it in the arrest video having a go at the policeman about calling an Ambulance? Is it Hales? What a prat
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:35 pm

Judging on Stokes is testimony, hes been well drilled. Focus on the homophobia element and protection narrative. Think its going to be a case of whether or not the jury believe that, because its hardly mentioned in the prosecution statement.

Hales not saying anything at the time could come back to bite him mind. He cant be taken seriously if all the records on the day are "he didnt see anything", only to switch tack. A lawyer will destroy that
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:38 pm

Mind it also doesnt look very good when the whole card is "they were being homophobic" and when asked, fail to produce one example you can remember.
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