Ben Stokes

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:40 pm

Yes it's Hales, as Ryan Hale runs off at some point to attend his friend and the maybe yes or no conversation is still going on. Plus he refers to Ryan Hale when he says his friend has got blood over him.

There is a disturbing piece of video somewhere showing Ali prostrate on the ground unconscious in the middle of the road with seemingly traffic around him.
Last edited by budgetmeansbudget on Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:41 pm

sussexpob wrote:Mind it also doesnt look very good when the whole card is "they were being homophobic" and when asked, fail to produce one example you can remember.

It's going to come down what Barry and O'Connor say, I guess the defence will have an idea.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:51 pm

budgetmeansbudget wrote:Yes it's Hales, as Ryan Hale runs off at some point to attend his friend and the maybe yes or no conversation is still going on. Plus he refers to Ryan Hale when he says his friend has got blood over him.

There is a disturbing piece of video somewhere showing Ali prostrate on the ground unconscious in the middle of the road with seemingly traffic around him.


Not covering himself in glory in the last few days.

What I cant get at the moment is who gets smashed in the original video. I'd assumed that it was Ali, but the discussions in trial seem to indicate once he hit the deck, he was out completely. The CCTV angle of the same part of the incident shows the guy hitting the floor, as the melee continues with Stokes striking the second one, and after a few moments the guy gets up from the road and walks off. So was it Ryan Hale?

If so there is a part of this brawl that has not been significantly captured by video evidence, only witnessed by the off duty cop. And if thats true and that blow was the one that didnt lead to significant injury, then christ, how many blows were landed after.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:21 pm

Yes the guy that ends up on the deck is Ryan Hale, because he's clearly shorter than Ali and Ali is seen facing up to Stokes' just before the video footage shuts off.

Hale ends up with a cut on his forehead bruising and memory loss. I'm guessing that shortly afterwards Stokes' knocks Ali out but that isn't captured on video.

Hale clearly tells police that Stokes hasn't touched him and doesn't want to press charges. That clearly isn't the case and he is probably trying to distance himself from the incident and avoid arrest.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby backfootpunch » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:15 pm

budgetmeansbudget wrote:
sussexpob wrote:Stokes claiming his messed up hand is a result of a cricketing injury.... is that what they call punching a locker now

I guess the finger injuries are cricketing injuries, the locker injury was more of wrist/lower hand injury, but yes it is quite amusing to hear him talk about it.

I'm getting more surprised about how Hales has got away without getting charged with something with some of the evidence coming out this morning, and it seems his account of what happened maybe inaccurate, claiming he didn't turn up until the fight was over. The CCTV footage suggests that wasn't the case!

Iirc stokes had a really bad hand injury caused by fielding for Durham and had several operations on it
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Slipstream » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:38 am

I am confused

Mirror
Stokes recalled that William O’Connor and Kai Barry then came outside, but he couldn’t remember what he said to them. He said he may have seen them in the club but had not spoken to them.

Mail Sep 2017
Former sales assistant Kai said he did not realise the 'quite fit' pair were famous as he partied with them into the night - downing Jagerbombs bought by Stokes.
But as the foursome were dancing together they claim to have heard someone using the homophobic slur 'batty boys'.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:12 am

It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word any of them have said.

If I'm on the jury I'd just go with the CCTV footage which is irrefutable and probably find Stokes' guilty on that evidence alone.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:40 am

budgetmeansbudget wrote:It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word any of them have said.


Yep. What I think is probably going to be seen as bias due to not really liking Gentle Ben, but very large holes are starting to appear in some of the accounts here. There is something not right especially with the account of the two gay lads, because all that they have said in the press is slowly becoming contradicted at every point. And also what Stokes is saying as a result is really starting to become sketchy.

They claimed in an interview that the two cricketers were dancing with them and buying them drinks; Stokes claims they hadnt spoke. The gay lads claim that they had been subjected to a comment of "batty boys" in the club, and that the bouncer had come over and talked to some lads and warned them about it; call me dumb, but if your defence is protecting these lads from homophobia, and the said bouncer is on the stand, if that really did happen then surely thats your first question? Its doubly important because Kai Barry claims the EXACT same insult was made by Hale or Ali before the melee broke out. The defence would eat that up, if they could prove the two defendants were homophobic in the club, because I dont know about you, the same insult being said makes it likely (if true) it is the same person saying it on leaving. The question wasnt raised. Id have to conclude its a load of nonsense.

Yet, the defence seemed to infer on day 1 when the bouncer was talking on the stands, that the homophobic gestures were just banter between friends. I might be wrong, but Stokes statements on the body cam and to police seem to at least try to show that he was protecting "friends", he definitely uses that term. The hand gestures are reduced in severity on the basis there is some established link of friendship or knowing between the party, like its ok because we arent strangers.... now Stokes is distancing himself. The gay guy seems to infer that Stokes has asked where they are going next, but CCTV shows Stokes and Hales walking past them.

But the biggest hole is what happens after they leave. TO quote the Mail article;

As they walked along Queens Road with Stokes and Alex Hales near them, the pair claim they heard more shouts of “batty boys”. Kai said of the abuse: “They’ve seen me thinking they’re big men because I’m a little gay boy. We had no argument with them. “When the fight happened it came out of nowhere.


CCTV evidence shows this is not true. The fight didnt come out of nowhere, in fact it is clear regardless of what is said, Ali and Barry are arguing with each other before the fight. More importantly, it seems that Barry grabs Ali by the crotch. He then walks away, and comes back to Ali, trying to grab his arm and link them. He is pushed away, I think if memory serves even the prosecutor says Alis push wasnt violent or forceful. At this point Stokes and Hales turn and become involved, and evidence from that camera became inconclusive, to be taken up at the point the student starts filiming. The gay guys could have been victims of homophobic abuse at this point or before, but to say these guys just attacked them? Tbf, if you came to me and tried to link arms with me and molest my balls when not asked, Id with no hesitation in the world spark you out. Certainly doesnt add up. Someones not telling the truth
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:50 am

Its purely speculation on the last point, but if CCTV evidence does show Barry trying to do those things to Ali, I just wonder after a few drinks what most people might say to a flamboyant homosexual (not my words, the courts). Barry said of himself in the Mail article ....
“When I’m in a club I just dance next to people"...... “It will be random bump and grind, like ‘Hello how are you’, it would be normal banter.


Now if a flamboyant homosexual was to bump and grind me in a club, I dont think I would class that as banter (nor a women or a straight guy, I dont like people I dont know entering my personal space). If he was to do it in the street, even less so. With the actions caught on CCTV, I just wonder if this behaviour was met with a comment like "get off me you ... (add desired homophobic slur)..... 10 yards down the round, slightly drunk and not really aware of the situation, its the only thing you register is that comment. You turn to see two big straight lads, and two effeminate gay lads, and put two and two together....

Speculation as I said, but I am really interested to hear what these gay guys say. If its the same story they have said to the press, then no one is going to have a clue whats going on, as someone is lying
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby KipperJohn » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:55 am

IMHO any evidence of homophobic behaviour is pretty irrelevant as nobody has any right to take the law into their own hands. The notion of protection or self defence is pretty slim as well as contradictory. The net result doesn’t appear to be in dispute - two men rendered unconscious by Stokes own hands and one of them has already been acqitted of the same offence.

The following article indicates clearly how the end result could have been a lot worse.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-38992393
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:37 am

Yeah, but Id be far less likely to judge someone punching someone defending a hate crime they witnessed, than just punching someone over looking at them funny.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby alfie » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:34 am

Lot of speculation on here...

Comes down to what the jury wants to do , no ? Whatever the law says , if the jury feels sympathetic towards a defendant in a mess of conflicting claims they are quite likely to acquit.

For what it's worth I think all the participants have suffered ...and all deserved to - up to a point. No "innocent" bystanders were hurt. All a bit of a waste of public money.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:10 pm

Sounds like Stokesy is getting ripped apart under cross examination at the moment. He wasnt insulting the bouncer, he was looking into the night sky and talking to God..... :facepalm

Doesnt rememebr anything, admits he might have had more to drink then he originally says, cant remember hitting Ali.... but he wasnt drunk, no no. Then he says he remembers hitting Hale, then slapping Ali, but doesnt remember then punching him unconscious. Well it must have happened straight after, how can you remember one and not the other?
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby KipperJohn » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:26 pm

alfie wrote:Lot of speculation on here...

Comes down to what the jury wants to do , no ? Whatever the law says , if the jury feels sympathetic towards a defendant in a mess of conflicting claims they are quite likely to acquit.

For what it's worth I think all the participants have suffered ...and all deserved to - up to a point. No "innocent" bystanders were hurt. All a bit of a waste of public money.


Got to disagree alfie- you just can’t go round throwing punches and not expect the law to intervene. I refer you to the article I posted above.

I live on a small island off the south coast of England - in recent times 3 innocent people have died here in separate instances when a punch has been thrown.

It’s simply not acceptable.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:34 pm

Yep trial has probably gone about as badly as it could so far for Stokes.

Only thing that can probably save him now is if the jury aren't convinced that a hypothetical bystander could feel that their safety is under threat. Yeah it all looks pretty bad in terms of punches thrown etc... but they aren't looking around for anyone else to bring into the melee.

The prosecution have gone for this more serious charge as a slight gamble when more minor ones would have been guaranteed.

I guess it's down to the 12 members of the jury deciding whether or not they would have felt in danger, what would people on this forum say, yeah or nay?
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