Ben Stokes

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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby captaincolly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:48 pm

westoelad wrote:
bigfluffylemon wrote:Not guilty plea and referred to Crown court. Per sussex's comment above, that implies a high probability of jail time if found guilty.

Certainly would be if he'd been charged with ABH or GBH but for some reason he hasn't.

I don't know anything about the law so my interpretation might be wrong but these sentencing guidelines , from The Times article when he was first charged , make me think a custodial sentence is highly unlikely :

Affray is a public order offence, under the Public Order Act 1986, in which two or more people use or threaten unlawful violence against another. It carries a maximum penalty when tried at magistrates court of a fine or up to six months in prison. If tried at crown court, the judge would have the option of sentencing him to three years in prison.

Sentencing guidelines state that a custodial sentence “must not be imposed” unless the offence or a combination of offences are so serious that neither a fine nor a community sentence can be justified. The guidelines stress that there is no general definition of this threshold and that even where it is believed to have been met, judges should consider a community order
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby westoelad » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:05 pm

Leg side Lizzie's article today states that affray is a "triable two-sided" offence which can tried in either a magistrates or county court. She implies that it's the 3 defendants who have opted for county court by pleading not guilty. Stokes will be acting on the advice of presumably what will be top lawyers who believe that's the best path towards a not guilty verdict or the minimum sentence.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby captaincolly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:17 pm

westoelad wrote:Leg side Lizzie's article today states that affray is a "triable two-sided" offence which can tried in either a magistrates or county court. She implies that it's the 3 defendants who have opted for county court by pleading not guilty. Stokes will be acting on the advice of presumably what will be top lawyers who believe that's the best path towards a not guilty verdict or the minimum sentence.

Yeah, he must have been given the best advice - and surely would have been wise enough to accept it! Chances are there could be a long delay before the trial takes place so let's hope he is on his best behaviour in the meantime.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby westoelad » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:38 pm

captaincolly wrote:
westoelad wrote:Leg side Lizzie's article today states that affray is a "triable two-sided" offence which can tried in either a magistrates or county court. She implies that it's the 3 defendants who have opted for county court by pleading not guilty. Stokes will be acting on the advice of presumably what will be top lawyers who believe that's the best path towards a not guilty verdict or the minimum sentence.

Yeah, he must have been given the best advice - and surely would have been wise enough to accept it! Chances are there could be a long delay before the trial takes place so let's hope he is on his best behaviour in the meantime.

Like no nights out with Jesse Ryder when he's in New Zealand!
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby captaincolly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:47 pm

westoelad wrote:
captaincolly wrote:
westoelad wrote:Leg side Lizzie's article today states that affray is a "triable two-sided" offence which can tried in either a magistrates or county court. She implies that it's the 3 defendants who have opted for county court by pleading not guilty. Stokes will be acting on the advice of presumably what will be top lawyers who believe that's the best path towards a not guilty verdict or the minimum sentence.

Yeah, he must have been given the best advice - and surely would have been wise enough to accept it! Chances are there could be a long delay before the trial takes place so let's hope he is on his best behaviour in the meantime.

Like no nights out with Jesse Ryder when he's in New Zealand!

That'd be a good start!
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:36 pm

I can only assume there is some legal technicality his lawyers are going for here. There is no dispute that he punched and injured a man, so how he can plead not guilty is certainly beyond me.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:27 am

As mentioned a few pages back......

Affray is very serious, but the more serious, the harder to prove. The indications will be if the magistrate deems it an indictable offence, and sends it to the Crown on the first hearing. If that happens, they should start to worry, but its still a catch 22: the higher the punishment, the more likely the charge doesnt stick. The less the offence is seen as serious, the more likely it sticks, the less the punishment.

What tends to happen, is that magistrates will keep the case, and everyone gets a slap on the wrist. Or it gets sent upwards, the seriousness cant be proved, and it gets watered down to a section 4 drunk and disorderly, and everyone pays a fine.


In this case they elected themselves to take it up, which they are entitled to do with a trail either way case. Makes perfect sense because they will be banking on a lower percentage of cases succeeding in the Crown v Magistrate. Trial by jury in trail by either way cases often return lower conviction rates than the magistrate. The risk comes with the fact the magistrate has less sentencing powers, but they would just sent to the crown judge to sentence if this was a problem anyway.

As I also said before, Affray is tough to prove because its not the actual violence and damage thats calculated, but how the violence effects a fictitious person who may witness it and fear for their safety. Always an argument with a "contained" brawl that doesnt spread out and lose control, that the test isnt satisfied. Hence the problem.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby westoelad » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:46 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:I can only assume there is some legal technicality his lawyers are going for here. There is no dispute that he punched and injured a man, so how he can plead not guilty is certainly beyond me.

Well the other guy had a broken bottle in his hand so presumably he's pleading self defence.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby westoelad » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:37 pm

Pudsey chosen as the emissary to greet Stokes on his arrival in Wellington! Doesn't mention in which pub they're holding their press conference.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:45 pm

westoelad wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:I can only assume there is some legal technicality his lawyers are going for here. There is no dispute that he punched and injured a man, so how he can plead not guilty is certainly beyond me.

Well the other guy had a broken bottle in his hand so presumably he's pleading self defence.


If the video is evidence, then I'd love to hear how his lawyer explains he acted in self defence by lannding blows on someone lying on the floor. Those types of actions literally never end with a self-defence argument being successful, unless of course the jury feel sympathy generally (often with a judge passing a dissenting comment after the trial is concluded). Also, not sure how he can claim self defence when he lamps someone retreating with their arms down and someone else seemingly trying to calm the situation down.

I did read in the reporting that all 3 are claiming it though. That to me sounds desperate, but in fairness a partial appreciation of self defence starting his actions could reduce any punishment.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby westoelad » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:10 pm

On the video evidence it's difficult to see how he hasn't been charged with GBH which suggests there's evidence of which we are not aware.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby KipperJohn » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:02 pm

Affray is a public order offence- so the prosecution will have to pursuade a jury that members of the public not involved felt threatened in some way. Obviously, Stokes and the others can’t be found guilty of an offence they’re not charged with, eg gbh, despite what most of us think given the video material-and we don’t know yet whether that is admissible.

Pretty obvious that nobody involved wanted this to go further - in that case the CPS might struggle with affray.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Slipstream » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:15 pm

I just can't see why straight after the incident that Stokes and Hales couldn't have had their disciplinary meeting with the others. Out drinking and fighting and bringing the game into disrepute. You would think Hales would get a fine and Stokes a two match ban. Why wait to see if he would be charged? Now the disciplinary meeting will probably be a year later and I doubt anything will come of it.
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby sussexpob » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:18 pm

Don't want to jeopardize their trial, no doubt
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Re: Ben Stokes

Postby Slipstream » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:25 am

sussexpob wrote:Don't want to jeopardize their trial, no doubt


There was no trial at that point in time, he hadn't even been arrested. Was the fact that he might have been defending himself going to change the penalty the ECB would give him? I don't think so.
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