Shut your eyes and think of England.

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed May 21, 2014 11:56 am

It's hard to justify bad decisions, and you tie yourself up trying to. Clarke can only keep quiet. It's his best bet.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80419
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 12:03 pm

sussexpob wrote:As for the latest point, the reason I came to this thread....

The picking of Ian Bell in the T20 SL game, is for me anyway, more proof of the contempt that the ECB and their management have generally for the domestic game. On so many levels that decision to pick him for that format, and made worse when D/L pointed out he hadn't play a single T20 match in three years, is further evidence that the ECB seem to operate in a world of their own. Bell is one of them, therefore he can do anything, even if evidence proves otherwise.

Its just so "them and us" with the ECB at the moment, and they don't seem to understand that by "them" they are talking about the people who pay their wages. Anyone who doesn't understand the blueprint of the masterplan is, by rights, not really a fan and doesn't know anything anyway.


You really have it in for Bell sussex, you post as if Bell is the root of all evil. He's a cricketer and doesn't select himself, should he tell them to get lost when they choose him.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 21, 2014 1:04 pm

You really have it in for Bell sussex, you post as if Bell is the root of all evil.


You might think that, and I also think that with your county connections you tend to favour him somewhat. I have no personal reason to dislike Bell, and I have given him credit where it is due. I, for one, was nowhere near agreement with people in 2013 who said he should be dropped from the test team, and even said at the time that was barmy, and slated Berry for his ridiculous article.

But, in the grand scheme of things, Bell's selection yesterday was a real blow for those looking for lessons to be learnt and for the management to start embracing what goes on around the cricket system, rather than this insular clap trap that is the reason for this thread's existence.

We were sold an idea that our best limited overs player of all time was being rid as part of a fresh start, then picked a guy who hadn't played a match for 3 years, and whose record is no better than probably 20-30 people in county cricket, some who's names are never mentioned. I ask why?

Fresh starts indicate "freshness", and to be fair if we wanted a fresh start then dumping your best player while stick with players vastly inferior for purpose is proof that none of what has been given as a reason to us fans has any truth in it.

Bell just happens to be a stand out example. If you had cared to listen, I also said the same thing of Chris Jordan's selection (one of my own) in the T20 squad, and to a certain extent, in the ODI squad.

Let me put it this way.... in your honest belief, is Ian Bell a T20 international? Should he have been picked? And obviously, the answer to your question is going to be no, so why was he picked.... answer me that.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35323
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby SaintPowelly » Wed May 21, 2014 1:08 pm

sussexpob wrote:Let me put it this way.... in your honest belief, is Ian Bell a T20 international? Should he have been picked? And obviously, the answer to your question is going to be no, so why was he picked.... answer me that.


hopeforthebest wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:i like that carberry is there, but i don't see the point of Bell in t20's...


Why? His record for England in the few he's played is way ahead of many recent regulars.
Better than Morgan, Buttler, Shane Watson, Glenn Maxell et al......
Bang-NZ ODI prediction guru
India vs Oz ODI fantasy league 2013
SA-WI Tests fantasy league 2015
Sheffield Shield fantasy league 2014-2015
SaintPowelly
 
Posts: 18527
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:54 pm
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire Cricket, Southampton Football

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 1:22 pm

sussexpob wrote:
You really have it in for Bell sussex, you post as if Bell is the root of all evil.


You might think that, and I also think that with your county connections you tend to favour him somewhat. I have no personal reason to dislike Bell, and I have given him credit where it is due. I, for one, was nowhere near agreement with people in 2013 who said he should be dropped from the test team, and even said at the time that was barmy, and slated Berry for his ridiculous article.

But, in the grand scheme of things, Bell's selection yesterday was a real blow for those looking for lessons to be learnt and for the management to start embracing what goes on around the cricket system, rather than this insular clap trap that is the reason for this thread's existence.

We were sold an idea that our best limited overs player of all time was being rid as part of a fresh start, then picked a guy who hadn't played a match for 3 years, and whose record is no better than probably 20-30 people in county cricket, some who's names are never mentioned. I ask why?

Fresh starts indicate "freshness", and to be fair if we wanted a fresh start then dumping your best player while stick with players vastly inferior for purpose is proof that none of what has been given as a reason to us fans has any truth in it.

Bell just happens to be a stand out example. If you had cared to listen, I also said the same thing of Chris Jordan's selection (one of my own) in the T20 squad, and to a certain extent, in the ODI squad.

Let me put it this way.... in your honest belief, is Ian Bell a T20 international? Should he have been picked? And obviously, the answer to your question is going to be no, so why was he picked.... answer me that.


You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 21, 2014 1:25 pm

You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.


then surely, with T20 opportunities in county cricket last weekend, why wasn't he playing in those games even before the International call up?
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35323
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 1:29 pm

sussexpob wrote:
You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.


then surely, with T20 opportunities in county cricket last weekend, why wasn't he playing in those games even before the International call up?


Warwickshire haven't played a T20 yet.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 1:31 pm

SaintPowelly wrote:
sussexpob wrote:Let me put it this way.... in your honest belief, is Ian Bell a T20 international? Should he have been picked? And obviously, the answer to your question is going to be no, so why was he picked.... answer me that.


hopeforthebest wrote:
cricketfan90 wrote:i like that carberry is there, but i don't see the point of Bell in t20's...


Why? His record for England in the few he's played is way ahead of many recent regulars.
Better than Morgan, Buttler, Shane Watson, Glenn Maxell et al......


I also posted:
[quote="hopeforthebest"

I don't like Bell or other test batsment playing T20 and to some extent too much ODI as they encourage bad habits. Bell, Cook and KP have often lost their wickets to one day strokes amd the habit stokes and Bairstow have of swishing across the line to straight deliveries comes from one day cricket.[/quote]
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 21, 2014 1:35 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.


then surely, with T20 opportunities in county cricket last weekend, why wasn't he playing in those games even before the International call up?


Warwickshire haven't played a T20 yet.


James Taylor played for Sussex last year on England's insistence.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35323
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 1:41 pm

sussexpob wrote:
hopeforthebest wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.


then surely, with T20 opportunities in county cricket last weekend, why wasn't he playing in those games even before the International call up?


Warwickshire haven't played a T20 yet.


James Taylor played for Sussex last year on England's insistence.


We must blame Bell for not playing for Sussex recently I suppose.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed May 21, 2014 1:48 pm

I suppose he could have played in the tourist warm ups.

I think Bell may have been called up in the winter as a means to staunch some of the reaction to KP's sacking, the intention being that here's another popular England player for you. Let's move on. But bad decisions are hard to make into good decisions. With Bell producing some good ODI performances, they seemed to get a bit carried away and believe he should play T20 too.

All that's guesswork, but then it's quite difficult to explain the selectoral contortions that England get into. It's not hard to imagine Bell producing some good T20 performances, but it feels completely unnecessary to me when we really need Cook and Bell to concentrate on getting their Test form back after two years of overall batting malfunction.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80419
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby sussexpob » Wed May 21, 2014 1:57 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
hopeforthebest wrote:
sussexpob wrote:
You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism, as I tend to do with many players. I posted for years that Bell should not play T20 but the idea that he couldn't be good at it has rarely been tested, though when it has he's been far from a failure.


then surely, with T20 opportunities in county cricket last weekend, why wasn't he playing in those games even before the International call up?


Warwickshire haven't played a T20 yet.


James Taylor played for Sussex last year on England's insistence.


We must blame Bell for not playing for Sussex recently I suppose.


Definitely the point I was making :facepalm
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35323
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed May 21, 2014 1:58 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:I suppose he could have played in the tourist warm ups.

I think Bell may have been called up in the winter as a means to staunch some of the reaction to KP's sacking, the intention being that here's another popular England player for you. Let's move on. But bad decisions are hard to make into good decisions. With Bell producing some good ODI performances, they seemed to get a bit carried away and believe he should play T20 too.

All that's guesswork, but then it's quite difficult to explain the selectoral contortions that England get into. It's not hard to imagine Bell producing some good T20 performances, but it feels completely unnecessary to me when we really need Cook and Bell to concentrate on getting their Test form back after two years of overall batting malfunction.


Your conspiracy theories regarding KP get more convoluted with every posting.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed May 21, 2014 2:09 pm

That's not really about KP. It's about post-KP.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80419
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Shut your eyes and think of England.

Postby D/L » Wed May 21, 2014 3:37 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:...You obviously don't read my posts on Bell very carefully, you'd be hard pressed to find me praising him for his England performances but tend only to defend him against unreasonable criticism...

I can relate to that and fully commend you for doing so, hftb.
User avatar
D/L
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:08 pm
Location: Leeds, Yorkshire
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire CCC, Wakefield Trinity RLFC, Leeds Carnegie RUFC.

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests