Dhoni retires from tests

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:30 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:I just think it is insulting for anyone to question his love for Test cricket.
People are free to criticise his captaincy but to say he doesn't care about test cricket is not on.


Why is it not on? What reason is there to arbitrarily say we can't question a player's commitment? Over the year's KPs commitment to ODIs have been called into question many times, I don't recall anyone saying, "Oh you can't do that, it's not on".


I wasn't on this forum when it happened.

In reality it is wrong to question any player commitment in cricket.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:34 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:I just think it is insulting for anyone to question his love for Test cricket.
People are free to criticise his captaincy but to say he doesn't care about test cricket is not on.


Why is it not on? What reason is there to arbitrarily say we can't question a player's commitment? Over the year's KPs commitment to ODIs have been called into question many times, I don't recall anyone saying, "Oh you can't do that, it's not on".


I wasn't on this forum when it happened.

In reality it is wrong to question any player commitment in cricket.


Why is it wrong? You're not offering any explanation for this statement. Player's are not above criticism in any aspect of their game.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:47 pm

Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:I just think it is insulting for anyone to question his love for Test cricket.
People are free to criticise his captaincy but to say he doesn't care about test cricket is not on.


Why is it not on? What reason is there to arbitrarily say we can't question a player's commitment? Over the year's KPs commitment to ODIs have been called into question many times, I don't recall anyone saying, "Oh you can't do that, it's not on".


I wasn't on this forum when it happened.

In reality it is wrong to question any player commitment in cricket.


Why is it wrong? You're not offering any explanation for this statement. Player's are not above criticism in any aspect of their game.


You are literally questioning the player motivation, motives for playing the game.
Do you honestly think players don't give a *modded* about their performances, would lose purposely and actually have no motivation to play in any formats of the game.

If Dhoni never cared about test he would never take blows to the body from Mitchell johnson, Broad and co.
You can Criticise his captaincy, Technique, Fielding or anything cricket related but to actually say he never cared about test or never really wanted to play is insulting to the man.

IF Dhoni or anyone for the matter never cared about the Sport they would never be an international cricketer let alone play 90 test matches for their countries.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:58 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:
Making_Splinters wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:I just think it is insulting for anyone to question his love for Test cricket.
People are free to criticise his captaincy but to say he doesn't care about test cricket is not on.


Why is it not on? What reason is there to arbitrarily say we can't question a player's commitment? Over the year's KPs commitment to ODIs have been called into question many times, I don't recall anyone saying, "Oh you can't do that, it's not on".


I wasn't on this forum when it happened.

In reality it is wrong to question any player commitment in cricket.


Why is it wrong? You're not offering any explanation for this statement. Player's are not above criticism in any aspect of their game.


You are literally questioning the player motivation, motives for playing the game.
Do you honestly think players don't give a *modded* about their performances, would lose purposely and actually have no motivation to play in any formats of the game.

If Dhoni never cared about test he would never take blows to the body from Mitchell johnson, Broad and co.
You can Criticise his captaincy, Technique, Fielding or anything cricket related but to actually say he never cared about test or never really wanted to play is insulting to the man.

IF Dhoni or anyone for the matter never cared about the Sport they would never be an international cricketer let alone play 90 test matches for their countries.


Sorry, but you're deliberately trying to obfuscate the question. No one has ever said that Dhoni or pretty much any other player in the game was trying to lose. That is a completely seperate issue and one reserved pretty much solely for Cronje.

No, I am not questioning a players motives for playing the game. I am questioning how motivated they were to be playing, those are two distinctly seperate comments.

As I said in a previous post, I don't understand why it is so difficult to discuss Indian players on some forums. "Insulting" "Pathetic" these don't have any meaning. Observations about Dhoni's apathetic nature over recent years, his disengagement with what was going on are not insulting comments, they are observations. I'd say calling something pathetic is far more insulting than actually offering a reasoned commentary.

Look through pretty much any thread on here about English cricket and England cricketers and you'll see them full of critique about players across all areas of the game.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:12 pm

I'd also say that it is perfectly acceptable to question a player's motives for playing the game. Why do players go and play in the IPL, Big Bash, Ram Jam or any other T20 competition? It is just for the love of the game, maybe but it would be hard to argue that it has nothing to do with the pay cheques they pick up. Why did Gooch and Gatting lead a squad to South Africa? Was it to stop cricket dying out in South Africa? It certainly wasn't a decree of support for the apartheid regime.

So, enough with the high horses, questioning why players are playing the game happens all the time. Not that that has anything to do with the observations made about Dhoni.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:12 pm

I'd also say that it is perfectly acceptable to question a player's motives for playing the game. Why do players go and play in the IPL, Big Bash, Ram Jam or any other T20 competition? It is just for the love of the game, maybe but it would be hard to argue that it has nothing to do with the pay cheques they pick up. Why did Gooch and Gatting lead a squad to South Africa? Was it to stop cricket dying out in South Africa? It certainly wasn't a decree of support for the apartheid regime.

So, enough with the high horses, questioning why players are playing the game happens all the time. Not that that has anything to do with the observations made about Dhoni.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:12 pm

I'd also say that it is perfectly acceptable to question a player's motives for playing the game. Why do players go and play in the IPL, Big Bash, Ram Jam or any other T20 competition? It is just for the love of the game, maybe but it would be hard to argue that it has nothing to do with the pay cheques they pick up. Why did Gooch and Gatting lead a squad to South Africa? Was it to stop cricket dying out in South Africa? It certainly wasn't a decree of support for the apartheid regime.

So, enough with the high horses, questioning why players are playing the game happens all the time. Not that that has anything to do with the observations made about Dhoni.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:13 pm

All players show different ways in the release of their emotions.
Let go back to the england test series.
Dhoni was pretty much laid back and waited for things to happen in the field, you could pretty much say he never really cared. ( not talking about captaincy here, Always said numerous time he wasn't a good captain but his attitude and Emotion in the field)
Kohli was agressive sledging and probably looked like he wanted to win.

Yet when Batting Kohli was a walking wicket and Dhoni was india best bat in the series and scored 50 when all the batters couldn't score more than 10 runs.

You can't judge Dhoni or any player on their emotions or they body language.

Dhoni is getting Criticized unfairly in my opinion because of his Ice cool body language.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v ... 15145.html
Dravid and Sambit Bal wrote a good article on Dhoni it is a good read especially on his body language and emotion.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v ... 15169.html

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:24 pm

Botham and Gower were questioned regarding how much they were motivated towards excellence. Is that the same thing? In particular, relating to preparation.

Dhoni seems to get a lot of criticism related to body language, which I think isn't always possible to read, for sure. In my experience, people are quite often thinking the exact opposite of what you think. But then, it may be that his team mates are getting the wrong impression too. He hasn't always convinced of his intensity, when in press conferences, but then he is the same regarding ODIs, for which no one appears to question his intent.

There is a case to answer for Dhoni, and many ask the same questions. But I think it might be too easily assumed that he is guilty. If he really felt as he gave the impression after the England series of 2011, would he have carried on with a clear conscience? It's possible that Dhoni deals with the pressure by acting as if there isn't any.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80650
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby rich1uk » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:29 pm

I still think bhav is over-reacting here to what is being said

I don't think dhoni didn't care about the format

I don't think he went out deliberately trying to lose

I just got the impression that over the last couple of years he looked to lose heart during games when things were going against india and I don't think a captain can give that impression, my impression might be completely wrong but that was how he looked towards the end of the last couple of tours , and he seemed to shrug off defeats a bit too easily and just accept that away from home it was hard for india to win
"I know words, i have the best words" - Donald J Trump

2012 SA vs SL ODIs prediction guru 2012 Movie Cup
2012 CB series guru
2012 Music Cup
2012 WI vs Oz Tests prediction guru
rich1uk
 
Posts: 22062
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:37 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:The stuff I see about Dhoni not caring for Tests doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and feels a little insulting.



Maybe I cranked things up a bit with this. If so, sorry. I think his record over a long period suggests he was trying. Could he have done better? We could ask that of many players who retire. Dhoni seems to be asked more insistently.

As I used to accept of Botham and Gower, as long as they are two of the best eleven players in the country, does it matter much what motivates them?

Dhoni often scored his runs when it would have been most easy to capitulate. He had a useful amount of integrity, however he expressed himself, verbally and non-verbally.
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80650
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby hopeforthebest » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:55 pm

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the arrival of Ravi Rastri in the dressing room hastened Dhoni's departure. I have the impression for several years Dhoni was the dominant voice there and was used to getting his own way and the arrival of Shastri who's no shrinking violet changed all that.
Work expands to fill the time available, so why do today what can be put off until tomorrow.


2017 West Indies v Pakistan ODI FL Guru
2016 Bangladesh v England Combined FL Guru
2016 India v New Zealand ODI FL Guru
2015 India v South Africa ODI FL guru.
2013 Ashes fantasy prediction guru
2013 NZ in England combined FL guru.
hopeforthebest
 
Posts: 15058
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Team(s) Supported: Warwickshire and England

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:04 pm

No question that Dhoni was a bad captain and he should have done more as a captain or not be captain any more.
But does raise a good point on judging cricketers on the field.

Dhoni wasn't that great on the field but with the bat he often scored runs when it really mattered for india.
Kohli, sehwag, Gambhir, Rohit Sharma would sledge, Aggressive on the field, Gambhir would even say in the press how much he wanted to win abroad and play for india but not perform when it matters.

Not sure why people are questioning Dhoni motives just by his fielding efforts or his Crap Captaincy but not his batting which often contradicted that view.

EDIT only using Kohli as the example in the England tour.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby rich1uk » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:07 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:No question that Dhoni was a bad captain and he should have done more as a captain or not be captain any more.
But does raise a good point on judging cricketers on the field.

Dhoni wasn't that great on the field but with the bat he often scored runs when it really mattered for india.
Kohli, sehwag, Gambhir, Rohit Sharma would sledge, Aggressive on the field, Gambhir would even say in the press how much he wanted to win abroad and play for india but not perform when it matters.

Not sure why people are questioning Dhoni motives just by his fielding efforts or his Crap Captaincy but not his batting which often contradicted that view.


giving up on this thread as we are just going around in circles now
"I know words, i have the best words" - Donald J Trump

2012 SA vs SL ODIs prediction guru 2012 Movie Cup
2012 CB series guru
2012 Music Cup
2012 WI vs Oz Tests prediction guru
rich1uk
 
Posts: 22062
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Re: Dhoni retires from tests

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:10 pm

hopeforthebest wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised if the arrival of Ravi Rastri in the dressing room hastened Dhoni's departure. I have the impression for several years Dhoni was the dominant voice there and was used to getting his own way and the arrival of Shastri who's no shrinking violet changed all that.


Reports in the indian press that Shastri was backing Kohli and Dhoni was losing support from the team and management.
plus reports Shastri and Dhoni had an argument over the tactics on the final day.
http://zeenews.india.com/sports/cricket ... 22996.html

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 89 guests