pitch quality index

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pitch quality index

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:03 am

http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/conte ... 59169.html
interesting article.

Although no idea how he gives mohali a benefit of doubt, and then attacks nagpur that is only few point lower.
Especially considering the stats totally based on how the game went.
In my eyes mohali was by far worse than nagpur.

Anyway if ICC are gonna warn pitches, would be nice if they had some system to rank pitches although to give the actual warning would need a subjective view, IE wouldn't necessarily ban cape town after the recent test match, but would make a recommendation to change the ball or have some more movement in the decks.

Also he is missing the point that green tops flatten out lol, the 2011 TB test had movement in the first 2 days and then flattened out.
Also doubt SA would have won any game if their won the toss, you still need spinners to take wickets, AKA mumbai 2004 when india won the game even with an 100 run deficit.

barring that the system looks good, might also make groundsman job easier to make the perfect pitch, in recent times it does seem if groundsman have no idea what is the perfect pitch.
quite intresting that in recent times no perfect pitches have been made barring UAE, Zim, Ban and NZ in the 1990s.

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Re: pitch quality index

Postby braveneutral » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:32 am

I find his writing slightly arrogant and the measure is not something that is absolute because there is no subjectivity involved - it is just maths.

Someone plays out of their skin on a bad pitch but team has a collapse on a good pitch - these are not at all to do with the quality of the pitches.
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I suppose.

At times.

Re: pitch quality index

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:34 pm

That the whole point.
Generally if you charging or looking at the state of pitches you need a non subjective system.

Ie if the values get too low or too high, they need to be looked at.
Instead of match referee giving subjective views this would be done by maths.

it is obvious the current system not working where flat decks and very excessive green decks don't get punishened.
Off record thought the ashes pitches were OK, don't like the Lord 2014 NZ 2002 pitches though

Although I would still look at it subjectively since I doubt the results are accurate, basically use this as a turn it in plagerise tool.

Off topic but think ICC going through the pitches the wrong way people want to see wickets and runs, stop the flat tracks not result pitches.
Also think turning decks should have more leniously since turning decks are more harder to produce than say a green deck.
Curator have a rough idea how much it will seam of the deck, they have no idea how much it will turn.
Plus pace is a massive factor as well if the pace is so slow even the most turning pitch looks quite easy to play, pace gets quicker and the same amount turn would mean game over in 2 days.
Curator in India no easy job, needs turn in day 1, needs pace also needs to be a fair wicket.
If dhoni and kohli were not so adamant about pace, curators would have such an easy time since they will prepare a slow deck so the game last 4-5 days and still have turn on day 1.
Following Indian cricket since 2002 and the biggest different between test after 2012 and before that been pace of the wickets, Indian spinners have been unplayable in all innings one reason jadeja and ash win have crazy figures at home.
Wouldn't say the ball turning more etc just that whenever a batsman makes a mistake their out and batsman have less time to recover from a mistake.
Suppose you can say make the pitch slower but looks like the Indian players are getting annoyed with all the flat pitch talk so just want all opposition players and team to have a *modded* batting record in India.

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Re: pitch quality index

Postby backfootpunch » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:30 pm

braveneutral wrote:I find his writing slightly arrogant and the measure is not something that is absolute because there is no subjectivity involved - it is just maths.

Someone plays out of their skin on a bad pitch but team has a collapse on a good pitch - these are not at all to do with the quality of the pitches.

completely agree

this is not something that should be decided by stats, the match officials at the ground can be trusted to decide whether the pitch was the cause of the result (an early win or bore draw) or if it was the quality of the cricket played

i mean who is a better judge of a pitch, the umpires who stand out there for every ball or a table of numbers

it doesnt take into account the things you say and things like dropped catches

i would say many of the recent aussie pitches have been flatter than the cape town pitch, but because australia have managed to win anyway nothing gets said
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Re: pitch quality index

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Jan 09, 2016 2:48 pm

Agree on the Aussie decks. But can they though considering No flat deck ever get called for being a flat deck.
Trent bridge was an exception and even then you can argue the one in 2013 should have been called but because of a great game irrespective of the pitch, nothing was done prepared a similar one in 2014 got hammered.

If you exclude Trent bridge only galle and Nagpur got called in test cricket with Delhi/ West Indies grounds being abandoned for being too dangerous in Odi or test cricket.
So many flat tracks and 1 or 2 over the top green tops Beene missed.
I highly doubt anyone knows what excessive seam movement means, also how do you measure this since batting gets easier as the games goes.
Let's say a team get all out for 150, 350 250 50/0 fair game or not in my eyes lords 2014 was ridiculous.
Ashes 2015 pitches are ok/good since it was more swing than seam so batting was still do able but lords was not took luck and grit to score and bad bowling for India to get 150 run above par.
England didn't even need it risked a lost and made the toss so important even if England did lose the game.

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Re: pitch quality index

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:01 pm

Although have to agree rating pitches are hard since Cape Town was a far better pitch just that wickets didn't really fall.
Trent bridge 2013 was slow and low awful wicket no idea how it was a classic game with no batting side dominating.

And the system in the article won't work in this case.

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Re: pitch quality index

Postby GarlicJam » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:57 pm

braveneutral wrote:I find his writing slightly arrogant and the measure is not something that is absolute because there is no subjectivity involved - it is just maths.

Someone plays out of their skin on a bad pitch but team has a collapse on a good pitch - these are not at all to do with the quality of the pitches.

Isn't he cock-sure about it? "The PQI is now a well-constructed measure without any weaknesses"

One of the beauties of test cricket IS the individualities of the pitch and conditions, so this is something the ICC should aim to maintain. Sure, we need to do away with/limit the horror pitches at either end of the spectrum, but I agree that historical data for each ground, as well as the actual conditions of that particular test, should be taken into account. If this system was taken as holy, homogenisation of pitches would be worse than what is happening in Aus lately.

Test cricket is just that, but not just a test of a player's particular physical skills, also a test of their ability to adapt and adjust, to prevail in unfavourable conditions. Surely match referees are experienced and impartial enough to be able to state on their observations alone whether a pitch is a stinker or not? This PQI may be used to back it up, but not as major evidence, imo.
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Re: pitch quality index

Postby backfootpunch » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:22 am

most english pitches are actually good for batting

its just that there is almost always cloud cover so the ball regularly swings and since we have jimmy and broad and most of the other nations are awful against the moving ball it can lead to short matches

often it can look like a different pitch for our batsmen unless we are playing a team that also has world class seamers
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Re: pitch quality index

Postby braveneutral » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:47 pm

GarlicJam wrote:
braveneutral wrote:I find his writing slightly arrogant and the measure is not something that is absolute because there is no subjectivity involved - it is just maths.

Someone plays out of their skin on a bad pitch but team has a collapse on a good pitch - these are not at all to do with the quality of the pitches.

Isn't he cock-sure about it? "The PQI is now a well-constructed measure without any weaknesses"

That particular line didn't sit well with me.
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I suppose.

At times.


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