Visa

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Visa

Postby Dr Cricket » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:12 pm

Visa in cricket starting to piss me off now.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/ ... 64761.html
if it is true that Bumrah didn't get picked earlier because of visa issues then that is pathetic.
Bumrah somehow didn't make it to the original squad, and unconfirmed reports say they couldn't get him a visa fast enough when Mohammed Shami got injured. Lucky they were playing because of more injuries, and under pressure in the dying moments, both of them delivered.


Crazy how difficult it is for Cricketers to get visa when all the others sports visa are usually given very easily.

Australia wasn't that hard to get visa before it was generally only England that teams faced issues.
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Re: Visa

Postby mikesiva » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:37 am

Yes, the West Indies have experienced similar problems with their teams....

In the past, Guyanese players such as Narsing Deonarine might be summoned to replace an injured player, but because a visa is needed to travel through countries such as England, and the time that takes, the WICB has instead opted for countries who don't need a visa to travel through England.

Players from Guyana and Jamaica need a visa to visit or pass through England, but not the other British West Indian countries....
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Re: Visa

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:23 am

mikesiva wrote:Yes, the West Indies have experienced similar problems with their teams....

In the past, Guyanese players such as Narsing Deonarine might be summoned to replace an injured player, but because a visa is needed to travel through countries such as England, and the time that takes, the WICB has instead opted for countries who don't need a visa to travel through England.

Players from Guyana and Jamaica need a visa to visit or pass through England, but not the other British West Indian countries....


those issues shouldn't affect international teams.
at most visa should take 1-3 days to come through.
The length it takes to get visa is ridiculous.
Cricketers have been known to be waiting for 1-2 weeks to get a visa.
No idea if WI do this but india/Sri lanka have sent a massive squad to England recently and Sri lanka had made arrangements to get visa for 20 players 2 months before the tour just because how difficult to get visa are.
Even counties are annoyed at the visa issues is a pain for them to get overseas players and they blame it solely on ECB.

even Starc got deported for not getting the correct visa lol.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cric ... 64117.html
here when the rules got strict.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/o ... et-cricket

The annoying aspect is that for some odd reason it is affecting international players coming for a tour when it shouldn't considering they should get a work permit very easily.
Frankly speaking it is pathetic Don't really care if the visa are not given easily to overseas playing county cricket but if they playing for their country the visas should be given easily especially when that article even mentions.
England's Twenty20 competition will have a different flavour, however. The EPL, due to launch in 2010, will be exempt from visa limitations, leaving counties free to bid for the best available players.

When if they wanted to visa can be given easily.

Anyway hopefully Australia situation isn't the same like england, would be a pain for loads of teams.
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Re: Visa

Postby greyblazer » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:58 am

Yeah it was reported a couple of weeks back. Initially, the selectors had pencilled in Bumrah as Shami's standby for ODIs. And when we saw that Bhuvi was his replacement, all of us were surprised :)
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:15 am

mikesiva wrote:Players from Guyana and Jamaica need a visa to visit or pass through England, but not the other British West Indian countries....


Seems strange that these exceptions are made on visa free travel. Usually visa requirements are reciprocal, so visa free travel for English people to Jamaica would be extended the other way.
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:19 am

As for the main issue, seeing moaning about the ECB on this is not really making sense. I doubt that the ECB has any control on the situation of international cricketers getting a visa, domestic cricket yes, they will no doubt be a process in place where a players visa/work permit application is subject to a counter balance from a professional body to judge the merits as to the quality of player coming through, in order for integrity purposes.

Its key to note that there have been scandals in football with agents that went high profile, and where players who couldnt kick a ball were getting work permits just on the basis that the agent made money out of the deal. Souness signed a bloke who probably didnt even know the rules, judging on his one abhorrent performance at Southampton (Ali Dia, bought on the basis that he was apparently related to George Weah). Agents involvements in the Tevez and Mascherano deals relegated Sheffield United (they never came back) and ended up costing West Ham tens of millions of pounds in court. You have to control sports people coming in to play in your country.

I mean to keep it just to cricket, there have been players jailed recently for committing serious fraud for big money. One had been banned twice for taking PED's and had been arrested and detained for illegal drug possession in another country. A good visa structure in place, and this guy isnt allowed to come. A weaker one, which was the case a few years back, and you end up spending public money convicted and jailing him and his friends for illegal activities, which costs the public money. The same tour ended with an asylum claim from one of their team mates and a huge anti corruption investigation involving the time and money of local police. The Olympic games drug problems arising from 2012 will no doubt cost money in the future or ongoing for the UK to investigate. There is a public burden on hosting sporting tournaments.

It is actually the ICC that need to act. It is easier to get visas or visa free arrangements in place, but its the ICC that need to negotiate this with the UK. Like anything, you have to demonstrate economic value making it worthwhile, which is probably why the UK are firm with cricket. What benefit does it have on the UK economy as a whole to allow Starc to bowl for Yorkshire? Probably very little to absolute non existent benefit. In comparison, what economic benefit does it have to allow the best footballing talent to play in the Premier League or allow Champions League team players to play without visa restrictions? A lot.... in fact the money generated by the city of Manchester through tourism coming to see two local footballing teams dwarfs the size of the ECB tv deal with Sky alone, which basically forms the majority of English crickets budget.... its not hard to see why the IPL or BBL would allow people to come in visa free, foreign talent flooding these leagues is the selling point, and gives huge social and economic benefits.

There would be a bigger case if the English T20 blast allowed more foreign talent, that the work permit rules are relaxed.....it would generate far more money and benefit the local economy. Thats what its about, balancing risk with reward. If you want to circumnavigate a visa regime put in place for a countries security and economic protection, then you have to make it worthwhile. No visa for Olympians in 2012, but the Olympics generated billions of revenue. Brought in 100,000's if not millions of tourists, all spending money in a local economy. Allowing a Windies cricket to pass through London without a visa on his way to India would generate the price of a bottle of Evian and a newspaper at the terminal shop. Hardly worth re-writing a law for. Russia will re-write its famously draconian visa regime for the upcoming Olympics and World Cup because it pays.

I work in tourism for a governmental body, and in my career I have had to apply for several business or working visas. I have passports full of them, and from countries that are notorious for not being quick or incredibly difficult to get, some to places in countries that are off the grid, out of bounds or restricted areas. None of them took that long to get, and if they did it was because my paperwork wasnt in order properly. Id hazard a guess this is the problem, and clearly was in Starc's case. If you apply for a tourist visa and turn up with several bags of equipment for a job, dont expect to be allowed to enter. Thats simply moronic and implies dishonesty. Name me one country that allows a person who claims to be a tourist, then turns up at a border saying they are going to be working, to be allowed to cross a border and I would be surprised. No country would.

In fact, the case of Windies players taking apparently several weeks to get a transit visa if they go via London, sorry but that doesnt sound true either. Transit visas require hardly any paperwork, they are low grade visas, and in the case of most countries arent required at all unless you leave an airport. London has the most international flight routes and departures in the world, I hardly think therefore its position is to bar entry (in fact, it has flight routes so much because of its ease of access). And for transit visas, why would the fact a person be a cricketer be of interest or relevant to the application? I believe as a European, you dont even need transit visas for places like China as long as you have a flight connection from the same airport. I find it hard to believe that (a) its required (b) it takes that long.

And for players that are coming to the UK, they have to be able to account for what work they are going to do, as they are technically earning money in the UK. In order to calculate how much of a central contract is being earned in the UK and therefore what tax they pay, it takes a little bit of sensible admin and effort. Not a lot, but certainly you have to prove earnings etc. I dont see why cricketers should be excluded from such tax payments or calculations, so no coherent return of your plan, no visa....no entry.
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Re: Visa

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:37 pm

Nice points sussex.
The visa are not the issue but the time it takes to get them.
the 2011 is the best example it took 1-2 weeks for india to get replacement.
India were actually close to not actually having 11 players fit for the ODI, they had to tell test players to stay back for it, Rohit Sharma, Jadeja and few others arrived late for the game.
Rohit sharma arrived late missed the T20 and got injured in his first odi.
Like you say visa shouldn't be a problem for international teams but it is, at most it should take 1-3 working days to sort out most of the paper work is nothing and most of them are on basic visas.
Sussex do you know any reason why it is taking long for Subcontinental players to get a visa.

Visa is clearly an issue though since India and Sri lanka both sent massive squad in 2014 and both said it was because of the speed it takes for players to get visas.
Just incase no one believes the Sri lankan story
http://www.espncricinfo.com/srilanka/co ... 31091.html

Sri Lanka's selectors are incensed at having had to name a preliminary squad for the tours of Ireland and the UK, six weeks before the first match is scheduled, due to the length of the visa process. The UK government requires 15 working days to grant visas for Sri Lankan citizens, with the Irish government needing a similar timespan.

15 days is pathetic though.
That is my only problem with it since Visa can be given far quicker than that but you should know more about it sussex.
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:38 am

Like you say visa shouldn't be a problem for international teams but it is, at most it should take 1-3 working days to sort out most of the paper work is nothing and most of them are on basic visas. Sussex do you know any reason why it is taking long for Subcontinental players to get a visa


These arent basic visas, they are pretty complex to apply for. Essentially a visa is a permission to enter a territory, and in the security conscious world we live in you are going to have to have certain aspects of your life scrutinized before an application is granted. The host country doesnt want to invite people that threaten its security, and also needs to make sure that the person involved has the adequate skills to do the job, has financial backing and a proper offer of work, and can financially support their stay. They also need to make sure that the person, before they arrive, is aware and can prove that they are going to adhere to taxation policies in place.

These arent simple issues. A player would no doubt have to prove his worth as an elite level sportsman through his home boards recommendation. The ECB would no doubt be required to vouch for the quality of the team and provide some form of sponsorship for the Sri Lankan team as a whole, or to ensure that the Border Agency list the Sri Lankan board as a verified agency at the top of its sport. Some form of security verification would be required, either conducted with interpol to check if there are any people with criminal pasts or links to those who are known. I believe they would also require the equivalent of a CRB check, so a police check on criminal past from Sri Lanka.

Then you have to say how much tax are they going to pay as they are technically working in England. This can be incredibly difficult, as supplying a calculation for a player based on what portion of their earnings come from games played in England, especially when their income is based on team performance, individual contribution and appearances fees.... good luck with getting that right and proving it.
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Re: Visa

Postby Dr Cricket » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:50 am

Is there anything to make the process quicker then because 15 days is pathetic.
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:56 am

I mean one 1-3 days is too tight. It can only be done where there is sufficient political links in place so that agencies cross border have access to information instantaneously with no restrictions. If you apply for a USA visa from UK for instance, its fine. The USA authorities information share with the UK, its electronic. If you are applying in Sri Lanka that have no system of information sharing in place or no electronic system to share information, then it takes longer.

Most embassy's get 100,000's of requests a week remember. In fact increasingly you find embassy's employ agents to save themselves time. These agents pre-screen an application so if something is obviously wrong, it doesnt waste the embassy's time to send it back. They literally get the documents perfectly, slap a stamp in the passport, and send it back. But obviously the passport starts int he wrong place and must be delivered to the relevent embassy, then sent back (there is two days midweek - 4 if the weekend).

Anything can complicate it. Time difference is another. You walk into an Embassy on Friday afternoon in the UK, the earliest some in Sri Lanka sees a request for a police report is Monday morning. Assuming he makes his checks, he sends it back and its perfect, its Tuesday before the UK get it. Thats just one variable, but 5 days later its completed.

Another step I missed above is all people to enter the EU have to have a biometric passport registered before they enter. This means going to an approved place to have fingerprints and eye scans tested, and then this has to be produced as a physical document.
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:58 am

bhaveshgor wrote:Is there anything to make the process quicker then because 15 days is pathetic.


Yes. The ICC can approach the relevant government authority to ask for a exemption for ICC related tournaments. But there would have to be grounds economically to make this viable.

And the likelihood of the UK Border Agency accepting Pakistani Nationals without visa clearances judging on security.... well, you have more chance of pigs flying.

Without a special relationship, these visas are treated like any other. To be pretty fair, they have what 5 years notice from the fixtures going out? And they can bring all the players they want and apply pre-hand for a visa without the person travelling.

You just apply for a visa for more people (it costs like £900 or something) and then bring them when needed.
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Re: Visa

Postby Dr Cricket » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:12 pm

I reckon for ICC tournaments the visa isn't an issue anyway since the squad have to be finalised before it starts and replacements have to be known before hand so visa should be arranged quite easily.
ICC don't have jurisdiction over bilateral series it is only between the two boards.
I suspect ECB/the other board would have to take control over the aspect.

Anyway what I want to know is doesn't sport people get priority essentially can't ECB push the Uk border agency to process the application quicker.
Generally Sri lanka board/BCCI/PCB or anyone affected now should really know what paper work is needed and have a lot of it ready straight away.
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Re: Visa

Postby mikesiva » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:03 pm

sussexpob wrote:
mikesiva wrote:Players from Guyana and Jamaica need a visa to visit or pass through England, but not the other British West Indian countries....


Seems strange that these exceptions are made on visa free travel. Usually visa requirements are reciprocal, so visa free travel for English people to Jamaica would be extended the other way.

There is a perception that Guyanese people overstay their time in places like the UK, and there's a perception that Jamaican gangsters (Yardies) became involved in drug-smuggling from Jamaica to the UK. However, it cuts both ways...while there are a number of Jamaicans in British prisons, there are also a number of British drug mules filling up the women's prison at Fort Augusta outside Spanish Town in Jamaica. But the UK have imposed a visa on Jamaicans wishing to visit the UK.

Why doesn't Jamaica reciprocate, you might ask? Well, tourism is Jamaica's most important industry, and a visa-free travel arrangement is the best way to encourage tourists to visit Jamaica....
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:01 am

mikesiva wrote:Why doesn't Jamaica reciprocate, you might ask?


I was getting more at the unfairness of the situation than anything else, hence the comment. As you rightfully suggest, I am not sure British tourists can claim the moral high ground with anyone.
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Re: Visa

Postby sussexpob » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:56 am

bhaveshgor wrote: Anyway what I want to know is doesn't sport people get priority essentially can't ECB push the Uk border agency to process the application quicker.
Generally Sri lanka board/BCCI/PCB or anyone affected now should really know what paper work is needed and have a lot of it ready straight away.


Put simply, why would the UK show importance to a cricketer when they are probably dealing with political asylum claims to help people escape torture or death in Syria? Or other businessmen also looking to conduct personal matters of importance for the economy? It means little to the UK that Sri Lanka get an extra spin option in a test match as a matter of urgent importance. As I said previously, if the ICC or cricket boards have to demonstrate a value to the country to waive the requirements, and outline a case. Its pretty easy in the view of ICC tournaments, but do bilateral series have that much of importance to make it work?

As for the ECB speeding up the process, no they cant do it. The Sri Lanka team would have to apply in their home country where I doubt the ECB can exert any pressure.
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