Alistair Cook - Under rated?

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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:30 pm

Put simply, name me ten great openers.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:39 pm

Have we agreed on a universal definition of the characteristics of what makes a great player yet?
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:41 pm

Cook has the 15th best opening average of all time for players with at least 3,000 runs. I used 3,000 as mark for at least a player who had played a bit. Of those above him, 4 have inferior career averages for batting in all positions, one averages about the same. None have batted as much in test cricket, 4 have batted within 20 tests, a lot are about 50-75 tests away.

So in terms of all the greatest openers in history, you could consider Cook to be about the 10th best players in his career, and maintained his career longer than any of the others. Also worth mentioning that the top players on the list would have only played away tests in 1, max 2 countries.
Last edited by sussexpob on Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:41 pm

Aidan11 wrote:Have we agreed on a universal definition of the characteristics of what makes a great player yet?


Somebody who scores over 10,000 test runs at an average of over 45 :-)
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:46 pm

The idea that you are comparing his average to a number 3 or 4 is like saying Fabio Cannavaro has no legitimate right to be claimed as a great footballer because Michael Ricketts scored more goals. Openers have never averaged as well as none openers, they face the toughest conditions against a new ball, it would unbelievably dumb to compare both roles and say you would expect the same. An opener averaging 45 is a middle order batsman averaging 50. Im a sure, and there are many examples (two from the five names you mentioned originally in comparison) of great middle order batsman who werent as great opening the batting.

To be 15th on an all time list for your position in any sport, and be described as "not good enough".....

To quote yourself..... LOLZ
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:43 pm

Let be clear cook is a very good player, just not an all time great.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:56 pm

There aren't any quotas though are there. Or rules of qualification. You're seen as one or you're not. Stats suggest it's harder to open in SA than England. Smith has a better average than Cook. But similarly, there isn't a cult around Smith being an ATG. Langer had a great career as an opener, and I bet his stats stack up better than Cook's. You hardly hear his name. But, fairly or not, Sehwag and Hayden have popularly entered the club.

These things become crystallised once a player has been retired a few years. Cook could end up averaging 42 or 50, and his reputation will partly depend on which, or where in between.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:58 pm

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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:38 pm

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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:55 pm

A very slowly rolling snowball.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:00 pm

How you score the runs make a big difference really.

Not sure anyone actually rates sehwaq most people that rate him are people overseas really.

Segwag is like kp a player of great innings more people rate him for the innings he plays rather than is overall career
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby KipperJohn » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:06 pm

Getting his name right wouldn't be a bad start!
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:08 pm

Autospell checker, did the post on the phone
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby greyblazer » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:52 am

The pattern of Anderson's record since Jan. 2010 shows that his average has gradually improved. He had only one really average year and that was 2013 I think. He has taken some 280 wickets at 25s. Cook got his average just over 50 for a while, but nowadays, it hovers around 44-46. Not sure where it will end up.
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Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby m@tt » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:53 pm

greyblazer wrote:The pattern of Anderson's record since Jan. 2010 shows that his average has gradually improved. He had only one really average year and that was 2013 I think. He has taken some 280 wickets at 25s. Cook got his average just over 50 for a while, but nowadays, it hovers around 44-46. Not sure where it will end up.


Discounting his first few Tests in 2006, Cook's average was above 50 for only a very short while - after his 190 at Eden Gardens in 2012. It stayed just above 50 after a 1 in the second innings, but after he got another 1 in his next innings, it fell below 50 and has stayed there since. Which was a shame because I thought he could have made it stay above 50 long-term.

Anderson's drop in average (and Broad too for that matter) has happened quite quickly - he was hovering above 30 for years and all of a sudden in low 28s now.
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