Alistair Cook - Under rated?

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby alfie » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:25 am

Slightly bemused by the amount of effort being expended by some posters in attempting to downgrade Cook's achievements...

Look , nobody (that I've seen) is suggesting he is up there with Bradman Hobbs Tendulkar etc ; but it seems to have been largely overlooked in all the discussion of averages that Cook is the only opener , apart from Gavaskar , to have reached 10,00 runs. (The Indian master has a considerably better average ; not surprised ; he was very good. ) There have certainly been openers with better averages , even in this modern era of lots of Tests ; but no others who have been able to sustain their level of performance long enough to reach this ( arbitrary , granted ; but conveniently significant) milestone.
Without digging around to find "excuses" for why other fine players haven't done so , I would just say this ought to count for something ,surely ?
As to "all time greats" I reckon that is a personal view which will vary widely. All I would say there is that Cook compares pretty well with both Boycott and Gooch among England openers ; all different types but I think he may well end his career generally ranked above either...we shall see.
By the way I agree Ryan Harris was a damn good bowler ; but he played just twenty seven Tests ; most of them at home , in England , or in NZ - and never played on the graveyards of India and UAE : to call him an all time great is stretching things ...
alfie
 
Posts: 7212
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:26 am

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:44 am

who do realise Ryan harris averaged 14 in Sri lanka and 19 in england on 2013 when the pitches were essentially sub C pitches.
Ryan harris would have been fine in UAE/India since he actually a pretty good reverse swing bowler.

probably shouldn't be an all time great but the fact he being mentioned shows how poor the bowlers are in this era.
you really could name 4-6 top bowlers in the era.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Making_Splinters » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:26 am

alfie wrote:Slightly bemused by the amount of effort being expended by some posters in attempting to downgrade Cook's achievements...

Look , nobody (that I've seen) is suggesting he is up there with Bradman Hobbs Tendulkar etc ; but it seems to have been largely overlooked in all the discussion of averages that Cook is the only opener , apart from Gavaskar , to have reached 10,00 runs. (The Indian master has a considerably better average ; not surprised ; he was very good. ) There have certainly been openers with better averages , even in this modern era of lots of Tests ; but no others who have been able to sustain their level of performance long enough to reach this ( arbitrary , granted ; but conveniently significant) milestone.
Without digging around to find "excuses" for why other fine players haven't done so , I would just say this ought to count for something ,surely ?
As to "all time greats" I reckon that is a personal view which will vary widely. All I would say there is that Cook compares pretty well with both Boycott and Gooch among England openers ; all different types but I think he may well end his career generally ranked above either...we shall see.
By the way I agree Ryan Harris was a damn good bowler ; but he played just twenty seven Tests ; most of them at home , in England , or in NZ - and never played on the graveyards of India and UAE : to call him an all time great is stretching things ...


You've done it again Arthur.
"It was my opinion it is up to me if I want to justify it or not" - Bhaveshgor
User avatar
Making_Splinters
 
Posts: 10183
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:44 pm
Location: Manchester, England
Team(s) Supported: Cricket - Lancshire , England
Rugby - Sale , England

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:57 am

Another fine mess...
I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 80417
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire.

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:47 pm

Cook is only 15th on the ICC Rankings list of test batsmen.


With 10,000 runs you'd expect him to be higher.
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby sussexpob » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:01 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:Tendulkars, Lara, Ponting, Dravid, Sanga etc never averaged or had a poor barren spell below 40 during their peaks if anything during their peaks their average 60-70s


None of these players were openers. Sangakarra played there a few times, low 30's average. Dravid averaged about 10 less in the opener slot, and that comes along with the fact his best performances that really boost his average came in that infamous Pakistan series where in one test, 7 wickets fell in a whole 5 days play, and in another, about 9 hundreds were scored.

Ponting never looked solid against the new ball in English conditions when openers dropped. Langer averaged less than Cook, and Hayden might have averaged more, but again against the swinging ball in England he maintained performances that wouldnt have got him past a 20th test if it was his home team.... both Langer and Hayden played years of county cricket aswell, so the conditions werent alien. Lara had a pretty bad record in England if memory serves. Tendulkar didnt score a hundred in England after 2002, what was it about 9 test? All I remember of Sehwags ventures here was his double duck to end his career in England.

We arent comparing like for like here. England is a tougher place to bat. Cook averages 60 away from home, and has had series winning performances in Australia and India.

Arguing an openers job in England against a swinging new ball in overcast May skies and a green pitch is the same as Sehwag smashing around a Pakistan attack on a pitch where the only competition is whether or not the bowlers can actually get the ball to the batsman, the pitch is that dead... not even a thing.

If Cook had been born Indian, he might averaged 55. If Tendulkar or Ponting were playing in May in England every year, they might also average 45 and had more periods of bad luck.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 35322
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:55 pm

Lolz If you think that Sussex explain to me again why he has a poor record against Australia, South Africa and generally against pace bowling.

Even if cook wasn't English he won't be average 50 +.

the fact of the matter is he was just not good enough.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:34 pm

Being an England great doesn't mean he has to be a great batsman, well in my eyes. If we were to list England's top 5 openers of all time, Cook would be in it, which is a good enough reason.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 21375
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Facts Cook averages 46 in Australia after average what 150+ in one tour.
FACtS Cook avergaes 34 in NZ
FACTS Cook averages 31 in SA

FACTS cook averages 39 against Australia.

The reason he doesn't average 50+ was because he wasn't good enough and has a flaw against pace bowlers when the ball moves a bit.

He has a major flaw that the other players just didn't have.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:36 pm

Gingerfinch wrote:Being an England great doesn't mean he has to be a great batsman, well in my eyes. If we were to list England's top 5 openers of all time, Cook would be in it, which is a good enough reason.


Exactly he is an english great I have no idea why people are trying to make him a world great because he scored 10K run.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Aidan11 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:46 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote:Being an England great doesn't mean he has to be a great batsman, well in my eyes. If we were to list England's top 5 openers of all time, Cook would be in it, which is a good enough reason.


Exactly he is an english great I have no idea why people are trying to make him a world great because he scored 10K run.


It does help though.
2010 Ind v Oz fantasy league
2011-12 internal Prem footy prediction league
2012 US Open Golf Prediction league
2012 Eng vs WI ODIs fantasy league
2012 TV Cup Winner
2012 CC Final Placings Prediction league
2014 Eng v India Test FL
2014 Royal London One Day Cup FL
2014 Ryder Cup FL
2015 Ashes Test FL
2015 County Championship Division 1 FL
2016 SA v Eng Test FL
2016 Eng v SL Test FL
2016 Eng v SL ODI FL
2022 County Championship Div 2 FL
2023 County Championship Div 2 FL
User avatar
Aidan11
 
Posts: 48588
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:38 pm
Team(s) Supported: Durham CCC, Hartlepool United

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:47 pm

Aidan11 wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote:Being an England great doesn't mean he has to be a great batsman, well in my eyes. If we were to list England's top 5 openers of all time, Cook would be in it, which is a good enough reason.


Exactly he is an english great I have no idea why people are trying to make him a world great because he scored 10K run.


It does help though.


really all it does show is that he played loads of games.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:50 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote:Being an England great doesn't mean he has to be a great batsman, well in my eyes. If we were to list England's top 5 openers of all time, Cook would be in it, which is a good enough reason.


Exactly he is an english great I have no idea why people are trying to make him a world great because he scored 10K run.


Is anyone making out he is a world great?
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 21375
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:54 pm

The way people are defending cook, sounds like they are.

1 Cricket Major
2019 IPL Season.


Dr Cricket
 
Posts: 9403
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:46 am
Location: UK London
Team(s) Supported: India

Re: Alistair Cook - Under rated?

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:06 pm

If he overtakes Sachin and gets his average near 50, then I'll be labelling him one, but not yet.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 21375
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests