DRS reforms

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DRS reforms

Postby Red Devil » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:02 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-s ... 24585.html

about time too! I would be even more in favour of Sanga's initial suggestion of just going with no buffer
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:14 pm

but need a buffer if reports are true it has an error of 1.5 inches, which is a half width of the stumps.

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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Red Devil » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:21 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:but need a buffer if reports are true it has an error of 1.5 inches, which is a half width of the stumps.


it would be the same for both teams and eliminates bias
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:27 pm

Red Devil wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:but need a buffer if reports are true it has an error of 1.5 inches, which is a half width of the stumps.


it would be the same for both teams and eliminates bias

but then what the point of having umpires then since Hawkeye can make every LBW Decision.

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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Red Devil » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:42 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:
Red Devil wrote:
bhaveshgor wrote:but need a buffer if reports are true it has an error of 1.5 inches, which is a half width of the stumps.


it would be the same for both teams and eliminates bias

but then what the point of having umpires then since Hawkeye can make every LBW Decision.


I thought the umpires did a bit more than lbw decisions ... they have to hold sweaters and count to 6 as well ...
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:53 pm

The umpire's choice makes absolute sense. I don't think the system is practical without it. The system is a pragmatic combination of wo/man and machine and although borderline decisions remainfrustrating, they always will People will always fantasise about that if-only, and bemoan their ill fortune. Quite often I think the commentators dont get what is going on, and they just spread ignorance.
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:59 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:The umpire's choice makes absolute sense. I don't think the system is practical without it. The system is a pragmatic combination of wo/man and machine and although borderline decisions remainfrustrating, they always will People will always fantasise about that if-only, and bemoan their ill fortune. Quite often I think the commentators dont get what is going on, and they just spread ignorance.


agree even smart people like Athers and Hussain were speaking like idiots on this subject today.

Really it isn't that hard to understand that the Hawkeye isn't 100 percent true if it says it is hitting 49percent of the stump it doesn't mean it is hitting 49 percent of the stump and because it is a model/prediction it has a error built in and in this case it is more or less 50 percent of the stump or 1.5 inches if you caught the wording in the article.
basically bairstow dismissal could have been out or not out.
ok the chance of not out was 0.1-1% but the fact remains they was no conclusive evidence from hawk eye that it was out.

it really isn't rocket science, quite baffling how many people think what the hawkeye show has no error what so ever.

TBH Hawkeye people don't help either, no one ever says anything is 99 percent Accurate, anyway not sure they can claim hawkeye being 99 percent accurate, don't see them measuring where the ball hit the stump to 5-9 decimal points.
it might be reliable and give consistent data but no way can they claim to be 99 percent accurate.

Anyway if the umpire call has to be 50 percent of the stump you do have to start questioning if it actually reliable as it claims to be, especially if MIT did find it to have an error of 1.5 inches.

Really hard to take any model seriously when it doesn't even release or tell the world it error margin.

even changing to 25% doesn't change anything an arbitrary line will still exist and something like 24% one way will make people feel they been unlucky.
What is ridiculous is if the arbitary line isn't set from the Error margin considering it will be wrong if 25% been set but it been shown 50% should be the fiqure because of the uncertainty of whether it is out or not when it clips the first or third stump.
Would far prefer a human making a wrong decision rather than a computer model guessing the outcome, since anything over 25-49% is since their small or sizeable chance it might not be out or it could be out.

Quite baffling how smart people like Athers failed to grasp this, can understand botham being stupid but athers come on the guy must know about errors/uncertainty etc.

Also it should be noted it was 25 percent originally but ICC had to change it when they found out Hawkeye not that great then they thought it would be.

It is actually more of a joke ICC brings technology without fully testing everything and then without getting independent testing.
MIT results should be interesting 2-3 yrs of data with loads of in depth analysis to try and get india in board and it could turn out india might not like it even more if the results don't look great.

will be ironic getting MIT involved to persuade BCCI to use DRS and then it turns out it persuade other boards not to use the system.

Anyway I am a fan of DRS but not on the way the technology or ICC run it.

like I said on another forum I am a fan of them releasing min/max/average path on umpires call so stupid people like botham can actually understand the system.
it could even be dumbed down by percentage saying 20% of hawkeye says out and 80% not out.
if it between 50-75% out or not out it is umpires call and people can see the system isn't certain of the result.

I really hope it isn't moved to 25% without a physicist or mathematician looking at the data since I can really see them moving it down because of the bad press and that bring the computer guessing the outcome of the dismissal.

Human making mistakes is far better than a computer making a mistake.

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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:43 pm

The graphic is quite misleading. Maybe if that went (it looks good on tv) there would be less controversy.
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby Durhamfootman » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:53 pm

seems to me there are 2 ways to go with this

either we accept the umpire's right to make a marginal mistake, or we just accept the Haweye decision and carry on with the match.

If the hawkeye technology has too much of an error margin to simply accept it, then it seems to me to be unreasonable to reduce the margin of allowable human error even further

Arthur Crabtree wrote:The graphic is quite misleading. Maybe if that went (it looks good on tv) there would be less controversy.

I've always maintained that the graphics are far too definitive for something that is really only predicting the most likely outcome in a whole range of possible outcomes, although I can understand why the telly would want this

When DRS and hawkeye and hot spot and so on were first brought in, my understanding was that it was to be used to eliminate the 'howler' ........... the faint nick of the bat in an lbw decision, or the ball missing the stumps completely, or the ball pitching outside leg, or whatever.... not fractions of inches and interpretations of prediction data.

All that being said... if DRS was abolished tomorrow, it would still have had a positive impact.... if you happen to be a spinner, at least....... because it has made umpires re-think all the old 'certainties' that had existed for decades
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby alfie » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:49 am

Arthur Crabtree wrote:The graphic is quite misleading. Maybe if that went (it looks good on tv) there would be less controversy.


That is something I have always felt. Not sure most people actually understand that what they see on the screen ( in hawkeye replays ) is only a ...pictorial representation of some mathematical probabilities (I'm not expressing that very well , I know) rather than an image of what would have happened.

Trouble is , television is a game of images ; and they have to show something...

I am not dead against reducing the margin of error ; but am concerned 25% might be a little low - surely that was why they changed it in the first place ? Do we really want to encourage ever more speculative reviews , with the consequent increase in time wasted (I can already hear the cries for more reviews per innings so as not to disadvantage fielding teams , as the next "reform")

I don't love DRS ...but it is here to stay and the same for both teams so I am happy enough to live with it ; without expecting it to produce a "perfect" outcome in every conceivable situation.
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Re: DRS reforms

Postby KipperJohn » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:32 pm

I was thinking about the latest 'no ball ' debate the other day. Perhaps I missed something so apologies, but I was concerned at the notion that no balls should be left solely to the adjudication of the 3rd umpire.

One of the reasons the onfield umpire adjudicates and calls 'no ball' is to ensure the batsman is given time, in theory, to adjust his stroke in the knowledge that he cannot be out, except run out. If the call is made solely by the 3rd umpire that opportunity is missed.

As to dismissal and referral I think both batsman and the fielding side should be allowed a referral if they believe an incorrect decision has been made, whether by omission or decision of the onfield umpire.

Hope that makes sense.
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