Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:50 am

bhaveshgor wrote:For one reason Clark was actually crap in flat condition and would probably struggled


Most seam bowlers would be crap in flat conditions. Glenn McGrath averaged 30 in Sri Lanka and Pakistan, did it make him a bad bowler?

I have seen Stuart Clark bowl one of the best spells I have ever witnessed at Adelaide in 2006 on a pitch that had DRAW written all over it. While Warne got the plaudits for taking the wickets, it was Clark at the other end that kept the pressure on by giving nothing away. That was textbook stuff on how to bowl on a flat pitch. The problem is, when Clark failed it was often more to do with the fact that his partners failed around him. I mean a good indication was in 2006 tour of BD, Clark may have struggled (as others did at times) to take wickets but when comfronted with a pancake that was made specifically to give rubbish batsman a chance against the worlds best team, you arent going to blow away teams. You need to grind out wickets, but I believe Clark kept it tidy, but Shane Warne got blasted at the other end for 6 an over.

There is also two tests that Clark played against india on flat pitches where stats again dont really do him jsutice. The first was on a flat pitch in Delhi where Laxman and Gambhir scored 200's, and both teams scored 600 in a a dead end draw. Clark bowled 35 odd overs in that innings and hardly gave any runs away, while Cameron White, Mitchell Johnson and Brett Lee were getting smoked all over the shop. Ok you will say he ends up with 0/60, but thats the only way you take wickets on surfaces that slow. Had he been backed up and they frsutrate and cause pressure at both ends, you get a team bowled out well below par and win heavily. But he couldnt build pressure with that at the other end.

In fact that test in Delhi was in the same year as a test in Adelaide when Gilchrist retired, and that was another surface that was designed only to kill pace bowlers. In fact, looking at those who played on the same surfaces as him, Clark had a better wicket average than McGrath!!! And Lee, and Gilly and Mitchell Johnson.
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:57 am

Sussex talking about is 08 performances though and he did have a big decline at the end of his career.
Siddle was probably rightly considered ahead of him.
Really point was not sure Clark would have continued to average 23 just like philander won't continue to average low 20 etc for the rest of his career.

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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:01 pm

As for Siddle, if you could ever pin point an exact moment where someones career suddenly turns for the worse, then for me it will always be Brice McGain that killed Siddle's legacy.

Siddle when he came into the team in 2008 looked like a magnificant quick bowler. I remember saying to a friend before the 2009 Ashes that I couldnt see England being able to contain him. In those days Siddle was pretty bloody quick, but more importantly he could swing the ball both ways and seam it. In that series back to back vs South Africa, he looked deadly, and figures might not tell you how well he bowled, as Mitchell Johnson was the real creditor of Siddle's pressure.

Yet that all changed in the last of the 6 tests. Mitchell Johnson all of a sudden was spraying it all over, and McGain was busy having the worst debut in the history of test cricket, so Ponting had no stock bowler to turn to. So Siddle bounded in over after an over with negative lines to try and tidy it up, and succeeded very well. But from that moment on that was he became to Ponting and Australia. He was the man you threw the ball to for a 15 over spell of negativity, not the guy who ran in bowled full pace for 6 overs and removed a middle order.

On the few times he was given the ball and let off the leash, Siddle was a real quality act. Too often than not he was handed an chewed up old ball and told to tie up an end
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:05 pm

bhaveshgor wrote:Sussex talking about is 08 performances though and he did have a big decline at the end of his career.
Siddle was probably rightly considered ahead of him.
Really point was not sure Clark would have continued to average 23 just like philander won't continue to average low 20 etc for the rest of his career.


He might have "declined" he might have just had a couple of tests on crap pitches against possibly the best batting line up in the world ever, as India were starting to peak in the late 2000's.

How many people would have favoured well vs an India team with Sehwag still a good player (and on dead wickets), Gambhir I believe at that time was scoring runs for fun, Tendulkar was still awesome, Laxman and Dravid still producing well. In unhelpful conditions, an all time world XI might struggle to get that lot out when in good knick.

Clark looked a quality player for me.
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby sussexpob » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:00 am

In the light of Bayliss' opinion on the fact that county cricket is a huge step between test cricket, seemingly throwing another nail in the coffin of the county performer, I do have one pretty large question.....

Why is it that the answer to a players failure is always blamed on the nature and skill of the player by the coaching staff, when England's cricket development model is so all encompassing?

It seems that no one ever questions whether the model of development is correct, alwyas that the player was not of a suitable mentality to make it work. And this is despite the fact that this model simply fails over and over again. England shelled so many catches this series, the fielding coach should be looking for a new job. And Ramprakash has so far failed to really improve one batter, but the only mention of him was in glowing terms from Root after he came up with a soundbite about Ramps saying he wasnt good enough, or some rubbish. When England lose, you always get the feeling in recent years they close ranks around an ideology that is sheltered in the popular public view from criticism.

I will keep banging on about it, but Vince failed on the last Lions tour against a Pakistan outfit, and failed as badly as you could imagine. So if Vince couldnt make the step out of the Lions on merit, why are we now sitting here criticising county cricket and the player, when really it was pretty apparent he needed more work.

Who did excel with the bat. Dawid Malan....not in a single squad.
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:09 pm

It's not going to be obvious if Root and the others are going to be really in support of the way things are done. After the time, we heard that KP and Swann (Trott?) were unimpressed by their management. It's pretty normal for management and workers to be in conflict. When Flower talks about his relationship with 19yr old cricketers, my assumption is that he is deluded.
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby sussexpob » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:30 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:It's not going to be obvious if Root and the others are going to be really in support of the way things are done. After the time, we heard that KP and Swann (Trott?) were unimpressed by their management. It's pretty normal for management and workers to be in conflict. When Flower talks about his relationship with 19yr old cricketers, my assumption is that he is deluded.


Who is going to criticise the boss when his opinion is now worth more than anything? To speak about about it is to give a death sentence to your career, or in KPs case, proof that you have an attitude. So young cricketers will continue to claim their caoching standards are the best thing ever, and only those dropped with no hope of return have the ground to speka out.... but by that stage, no one is listening.

I heard Compton interviewed in the third test, and he felt like he really wanted to let loose, but stopped himself on the basis that he might consider an international career is not yet lost. But he did say that working under Bayliss was much better than Flower, and maybe some vague comments about the dressing room atmosphere being much better. When asked if the dressing room was a problem under Flower, he at that stage went back in his shell and declined to comment... which is as much as saying "shite mate, total shite".
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Re: Strauss and England's Selection and Development Policies

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:09 pm

Dawid malan also had a decent/good county season this year as well.

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