Michael Clarke new book controversies

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Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby yuppie » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:59 am

Seems pup has a new book to sell, and in an interview on 60 minutes last night he certainly seemed to open up on some of the issues of when he was captain and vice captain.

Looks like Watson in getting a good going over, and he also seems to admit it was his fault with the Katich incident.

Also seems to agree that he comes across as selfish.

Personally never quite know where i sit with Clarke. Before injury ruined him as a batsman he was an incredible player for a few years there, probably the best batsman going around, then his back gave up.

Also his captaincy was inventive and seemed to have full confidence in the players around him. He made things happen.

Yet he is not loved by Australian cricket fans. He almost strikes me as a Kim Hughes type figure, though he has much more self confidence and seemed not to be affected by what those around him thought.

Think this might be one of the few autobiographies I will enjoy reading. It will certainly cause a stir at the start of the Australian summer.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:08 am

Reading some quotes, it's surprising so much swearing is allowed on primetime tv.

And Clarke clarifying he didn't call Watson a cancer, but a tumour that might become a cancer is pretty gruesome and tasteless.

I thought he was re-evaluated positively by the Aussie public following his response to Hughes' death?
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:34 am

Aussie posters might think this is rubbish and stereotyping, but I have always thought that Australian players usually fall into two distinct groups; there is the first group that is usually full of gregarious, outspoken, uncomplex and staight talking, aggressive characters who play hard and rough and thrive on instinct. And then there is a thread of more nuanced characters who are far more complex, lack the adjoining self belief and extrovert nature of the others, or lack that uniquely Australian identity that is prevalent.

Clarke I think was born in the latter group, but like Ali Cook for England, has been forced by the prevailing winds of the media spotlight and inherent contemporary culture to morph himself into the former. People like their captains in the modern day to be confident media savvy types, to be boisterous and vocal, to be visually involved and active on the field. I dont think Clarke took to that naturally, he had to force it, particularly once he started working with Darren Lehmann who was naturally from that style of mould.

In fact the transformation between 2012 and 2013 in Clarke was pretty stark. He smashed those runs in that year, and he was off in the stand after with the commentators being interviewed with his granddad and dad, and he was an all out softie family man, simple honest bloke, salt of the earth and humble. In 2013 he was screaming at people that they were going to have their arm broken, and his team were combatitive and excelled in fear and nastiness.

I guess for that reason you always felt that you were never seeing the true person. Clarke was a bit of a chameleon, showing ruthlessness and meekness at the same time. He could both be at once a player capable of pinning a fellow player to a wall by the throat, and at the same time cutting it as a bit of a pathetic loner in a dressing room. And then again, coming across in the wake of Hughes's death as a warm, father figure, capable of compassion and love for those he played with.

In a cricketing culture where Stuart MacGill was dubbed a weirdo for saying he liked a glass of wine instead of beer, I think Clarke was far to complicated a personality to be easily pigeon holed in that "Captain of Australia" role that people were used to seeing. Taylor, Ponting, Waugh, Steve Smith, Border (even fill in Captains like Gilchrist) all could be defined as people in a paragraph. They had strong and obvious characters. People liked them for that. Clarke is much more mysterious to the average person.

I think that maybe has a lot more to do with with society in general. That old fashioned characature of the Aussie man is quite clearly, in the vessel of cricket, taking way to more metrosexual and modern man tendancies. I think Clarke represents a large social change in male identity that seems prevalent. I guess that shift in culture is yet to be defined in a wider context, so its probably not Clarke himself who can be blamed for his lack of familiararity.

One thing that does seem apparent is that Clarke didnt get on with the other players I would consider to be of similar natural personalities. This was a huge negative for him. Guys like Shane Watson might have been buff, typical rough masculine types but Watson was crushed by a lack of self-belief and was always an outsider. Katich was also a difficult, non-straight forward type of guy with a complex character. Mike Hussey always seemed quite introverted and quietly present, not that I think that made him unpopular in a team context, but it did effect his relationship with Clarke.

It seems to me that Clarke rubbed certain people up the wrong way because he was so concerned with pretending to be someone he wasnt, that he had little time to understand the unique characteristics of the more complex people in his dressing room.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:44 am

I think if I had to put a finger on it, it was probably in 2005 at Old Trafford that the problems with his character first emerged. England were looking live in the series, on top in the match, and Clarke initially stated he had a sore back and wouldnt be able to leave his hotel room. I think a lot of Aussies at the time thought "who cares, we are losing this test" and after years of Steve Waugh's led team, expected Clarke to come and face the music. Eventually he did (at 6 down I believe), but there was a lot of commentary at the time that was very negative, as he was seen to be selfish for letting what was seen as a minor problem potentially costing his team.

It is certain that there was a streak of selfishness in him. And a dallop of "the world revolves around me". I mean, the issue with Katich in 2009 really shows to me he is a bit of a pr*ck. To disrespect a legend like Hayden, or his team, because he had something better to do is not something a nice guy does, regardless of how it is..... I have been to countless leaving do's I hated every moment of for the sake of the greater good and building bonds with colleagues. TO be an adult in such an insular dressing room and not be savvy to understand that is quite suprising and self centered.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby from_the_stands » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:23 pm

I'll be having a read of Pup's book, which is sure to have plenty of juice on a whole range of incidents that occurred throughout his career. Naturally in that time, relationships with team mates will have their ups and downs. Inheriting the captaincy of a team in decline will obviously create pressure for all involved. There is no doubt that Clarke has been a polarising figure in Australian cricket, but never-the-less, was also one of the finest batsmen the game has seen.

I remember when Clarke first came into international cricket, he was labelled as "special," and was anointed as a future Test captain. He was the chosen one, it seemed, although at the time, I was in the Cameron White camp, which ultimately sank quicker than the Titanic. Clarke the batsman did impress me a great deal more than Clarke the captain. I couldn't help but feel that there were too many things going against Clarke the captain, for him to be compared favourably to the like of Punter, Tugga, Tubs and AB. The Andrew Symonds affair wasn't his fault, although he was rumoured to have snitched on Symonds, resulting in the latter being banished from the Australian team, at a time when we really needed him. The Katich affair seems to have tainted the relationship he had with several players, and indeed seems to have pre-maturely ended Katich's international career, at a time when we really needed him. The on going speculation about his poor relationship with Twatto can't have been good for team harmony, especially following the Homeworkgate saga. As far as the Oz fans go, Clarke received a huge ovation from the MCG crowd when he scored a Test century there, and did lift the 2015 WC at the same venue. I was present for both and couldn't help but notice how well received he was, which admittedly, did surprise me.

For me, I went cold on Clarke when he refused to drop himself for the World T20 final. I saw that as an act of pure selfishness, one which cost us a piece of silverware. And when he reneged on his Melbourne Stars contract to take part in the Sydney to Hobart yacht race, his stocks fell further still. I couldn't help but smile when I saw that he signed up to play T20 in Hong Kong... and did absolutely nothing.

Love him of loathe him, his book promises to be quite a read.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby sussexpob » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:40 pm

from_the_stands wrote:There is no doubt that Clarke has been a polarising figure in Australian cricket, but never-the-less, was also one of the finest batsmen the game has seen.


A statement that is completely true assuming cricket was only ever played in Oceania..... take the boy out of NZ or AUS, and it turns out he was bang average.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby yuppie » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:57 pm

Clarke was always perceived to be a great player of spin, though i never thought that at test level. Think it has something to do with getting his maiden ton in India.

His one day record was much better away from home, averaging over 50 in Asia and having a better average in England than in Australia.

Yet in tests it was the total opposite by a big margin. I probably see him as a better one day player than test player.

I think of Australian bats of the last 20 years there is Ponting at his best, and then a gap.

Clarkes purple patch was something to behold though, and it was his back that let him down, you could see for the last couple of years of his career the impact it had on him as a batter.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:21 pm

TBH a lot of the myth come from the maiden ton and the fact he got quick feet so tend to play spin nicely when the ball not turning.
plus the way he plays spin looks pretty when the spinner doesn't get purchase.

Really he the same as bell, very good players of spin when the ball doesn't spin but they generally lack or struggle to pick the turn or the length of the spinner when the ball actually turns so their record in Asia is a bit hit and miss.

Clarke struggled badly with Jadeja couldn't pick length of him and he basically scored all his runs in one innings in 2013 and even then a lot of the runs was lucky or very hard work, think he could have been out 5-7 times in that innings.

Always baffles me how Cook never get the credit he deserves for his ability against spin.
picks length very easily that it is basically impossible to get him out if you are a spinner.

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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:24 am

intresting quote in the book about monkeygate.
"Later Clarke supports Symonds in the Monkeygate case, even though he doubts the veracity of pursuing a charge of racial taunts"

Although do find it funny the next quote essentially backs up my point couple of weeks ago lol.
""According to Clarke, Symonds says his motivation is this: "I'm sick and tired of them [India] getting away with it. We never get away with anything, but they do." "

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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Toby F » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:02 am

Whatever whining people like to have, watching Clarke and Ponting batting well in a test innings together was always a treat. Pity there wasn't more of it.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby yuppie » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:35 am

Toby F wrote:Whatever whining people like to have, watching Clarke and Ponting batting well in a test innings together was always a treat. Pity there wasn't more of it.



That it was.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby sussexpob » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:56 am

Not sure I can agree on the point Bhaveshgor makes about Clarke playing spin. In 2012 Clarke came close to ending Ashwin's fledging career, Ashwin got that much of a canning. And places like Adelaide the ball spun, Lyon picked up Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag in one innings IIRC. Clarke made over 200 in that test vs Ashwin.

I think it goes without saying that players struggle more when the ball turns. Even Indians do. Take 2001 at Mumbai, raging turner, second innnings the master Indian batsman even struggled against Mark Waugh bowling at one end. And in the tour after that when Warne finally took a 5-for in India at Chennai, I believe Kumble took something like 14 wickets in that game, with the rest of India's wickets coming Harbi.

Batting in India in this period was a real mix of conditions. Slow, low pancakes where Indian batsman and away batsman piled up runs, and then turner pitches were a lot of batsman on both sides struggle. Even Mumbai in 2006 when England toured turned so much, Shaun Udal won the game for England, including making Tendulkar look average for a bit.

Take Tendulkar. Averages much lower in general on India's traditional venues, but places like Nagpur that have turned into bowler death traps, he averages huge numbers on. At places like Eden Gardens (45) his record improves with time as the new groundsman made that pitch dead. At Delhi his record isnt that hot. Wankede despite being a home ground he averages well under his career record. Ahmedabad too.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby meninblue » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:30 pm

He was a top class batsman. At certain point of time he was worlds best. Technically he had a good control of forearm while playing on the up strokes. The elbow position complimented it.Only Jaddu troubled him as he picked his wicket 5 times in one tests series versus us in India.

His fielding too was incredible.

Bowling wise i cannot forget his 6 wicket hail in test versus us at Mumbai. He won that test match with his bowling.

As a captain although he did make couple of blunders, but overall he was succesful considering the win:loss ratio. The worst match could be the test in South Africa where his team gof out for 71?

I hope his autobiography is as good as his cricketing skills were.
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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Dr Cricket » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:59 pm

sussexpob wrote:Not sure I can agree on the point Bhaveshgor makes about Clarke playing spin. In 2012 Clarke came close to ending Ashwin's fledging career, Ashwin got that much of a canning. And places like Adelaide the ball spun, Lyon picked up Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag in one innings IIRC. Clarke made over 200 in that test vs Ashwin.

I think it goes without saying that players struggle more when the ball turns. Even Indians do. Take 2001 at Mumbai, raging turner, second innnings the master Indian batsman even struggled against Mark Waugh bowling at one end. And in the tour after that when Warne finally took a 5-for in India at Chennai, I believe Kumble took something like 14 wickets in that game, with the rest of India's wickets coming Harbi.

Batting in India in this period was a real mix of conditions. Slow, low pancakes where Indian batsman and away batsman piled up runs, and then turner pitches were a lot of batsman on both sides struggle. Even Mumbai in 2006 when England toured turned so much, Shaun Udal won the game for England, including making Tendulkar look average for a bit.

Take Tendulkar. Averages much lower in general on India's traditional venues, but places like Nagpur that have turned into bowler death traps, he averages huge numbers on. At places like Eden Gardens (45) his record improves with time as the new groundsman made that pitch dead. At Delhi his record isnt that hot. Wankede despite being a home ground he averages well under his career record. Ahmedabad too.


good point, guessing with Clarke being the only player capable of playing spin, his ok innings or games become more of a spotlight if that make sense.

india did or do generally get away with it since they have more players capable of playing spin or a deeper batting line up.

Actually thinking about it clarke probably matches your definition, some real gem innings, Banglore 2004, Nagpur 2004, Delhi 2008, Chennai 2013, Hyderbad 2013.

but was quite average most of the time.

Really averaging 40 from 13 test matches is quite poor especially when you scored 3 hundreds and 4 fifties basically means in 18 innings clarke didn't really contribute much and considering he was the only batsman capable of surviving or scoring in india makes the returns quite poor, although can't get too critical considering most of the time he got out to very good bowling and really anyone would struggle with Jadeja/Ashwin bowling in tandem.

Also should be remembered Australia haven't won a test in india since 2004 or even been close to winning a test since 2008, so in general the Australian batsman are under pressure to score runs in Asia, even if they only really realised this now.

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Re: Michael Clarke new book controversies

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:05 pm

clubcricketeradi wrote:He was a top class batsman. At certain point of time he was worlds best. Technically he had a good control of forearm while playing on the up strokes. The elbow position complimented it.Only Jaddu troubled him as he picked his wicket 5 times in one tests series versus us in India.

His fielding too was incredible.

Bowling wise i cannot forget his 6 wicket hail in test versus us at Mumbai. He won that test match with his bowling.

As a captain although he did make couple of blunders, but overall he was succesful considering the win:loss ratio. The worst match could be the test in South Africa where his team gof out for 71?

I hope his autobiography is as good as his cricketing skills were.


He had at least two legendary innings, hundreds in Cape Town, at the start of the noughties on a damp wicket to Morkel/Steyn/Philander, and the second at Cape town with a broken shoulder. Players need those kind of knocks to be remembered, and surely these are among the very best innings played by Australians.

Also, as I've mentioned in the past, his stats aren't bolstered at all by games against minnows. If you strip out BD and Zimbabwe, he soars up the averages list. He was a fine skipper and he soldiered on amazingly well with a pretty bad back injury. He carried the Aussie team for a few years, and had a period where he was clearly the best bat in the world, and had one of the best years for runs ever.

I think there's a good case for him being one of the greats. But it sort of doesn't work when you try it. My little Test for taking the hype out of the game is to look at the players above and below in the stats. Minimum 5000 runs since 1990, excluding the minnows, Clarke falls between Dravid and Sehwag. Both are Hall of Famers.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

I wonder a bit if Aussies just got bored of having great batters. I've lived through Chappell, Border, Waugh and (Aussies say so, but I'm not sure) Ponting. Maybe they're just spoiled for batting legends.
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