Ashwin

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Ashwin

Postby Red Devil » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:03 pm

Ravi Ashwin ... so seriously, how good is he?

300 wickets at 25 in only 54 tests - fastest ever to 300 wickets ahead of Lillee on 56 tests. Really emerged at a time when ind were starting to worry about their spin bowling resources with Bhaji and Kumble on the way out.

He's also scored over 2000 test runs at 31.5 and has 4 test centuries - his lower order batting has given Ind flexibility as well.

Should he now be considered India's best ever spinner and India's best ever all-rounder?
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Dr Cricket » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:17 pm

big 18 months for him though since he hasn't really had much success overseas.
Although agree with one tweet on twitter he hasn't really had a chance to succeed overseas yet considering he hasn't played much games outside Asia/WI.
the only country he got a decent sample size is australia and an average of 52 isn't that bad for a spinner there.
england he only played 2 test where he probably bowled in 2 or 3 innings because india were poor with the bat in the games he played, doubt any bowler can do well when the batters fail like that.
SA one test
NZ no test
So in overseas test that his numbers are scrutinised are 9 test in total with 6 of them coming in Australia where spinners don't do well especially finger spinners.

But he does need to have decent numbers overseas and he probably should get this time around with india have a good seam attack complementing him.

Edit Ashwin only bowled in 2 innings in England.
Although his average in england isn't that bad only 33.
essentially his overseas average is solely based on Australia.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby yuppie » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 pm

If an average of 52 for a spinner in Australia is not to bad, then Nathen Lyon is a god. Kumble averaged 38 and Herath 34. Even Paul Harris and S Benn average under 40 in Australia. Its tough for spinners in Australia, but an average of 52 for a front line bowler can never be considered good.

The real challange comes for him when he starts to tour. His figures are amazing, but comperable to Jadeja over the last few years. At present he is actually ranked behind Jadeja in the world rankings. Of his 54 matches he has played 41 in Asia which has lead to 259 wickets which is an average of over 6 wickets each match. In the UK, South Africa and Australia he has played 9 tests for 24 wickets at under 3 wickets per match.

For me questions still remain until he gets the opportunity to bowl more in conditions that are not as favourable to his bowling. 3 tests in South Africa early next year should give us a better idea of how to compare the player against other indian Spin bowlers. Indeed even against other spin bowlers going around the game now.

His batting this year has not been as good as previous years. Have all his 100;s come against WI? Scored some 50s against England as well. Certainly class him as an all rounder, but would he be Indias best?
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:03 am

TBH India not really known for all rounders.
I can only think of two all rounders that played a decent amount kapil Dev and irfan Pathan.
So from that two Ashwin is clearly matching Dev in impact and is better than Pathan.

Agree with your point but apart from lyon finger spinners don’t do well in Australia.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Dr Cricket » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:18 am

Most fingerspinners struggle in Australia, really herath is an exception plus 3 test matches is a small sample size.
52 is an ok average for a finger spinner in Australia considering Murali averages 80 odd there and spinners could have a hard time taking wickets in Australia if everything goes wrong with the bowling attack.
Swann with one good series in Australia still averages highly in Australia.
Very tough place to bowl finger spin in austrlia.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:37 am

I can think of some offies that have done ok in Australia. Tim May. I reckon Emburey did well for England. Bruce Yardley. Lyono. It can be done

Not sure any Indian spinner has much of a record in England, save Chandrasekhar, in a single Test. So not much to beat in terms of other Indians. Which is odd as spinners from other countries have done well here.

I have a lot of regard for Ashwin because he emerged at a time when the doosra was king and Ashwin pursued a method above reproach and worked up a ball (invented by Jack Iverson I think) that gave him a legitimate variation. I felt he (and contemporaries) were let down by what others were allowed to get away with.

I suppose an interesting aspect of the game is that the challenges are so many and so varied and few master all of them. My reflex is that Kumble was the best Indian spinner of my time, partly because he mastered more of them than most.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby andy » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:42 am

I'd say he's a magnificent bowler, yes his overseas record needs a bit of work, but he has time to do so.....wouldn't call him India's best ever spinner.....that's clearly Kumble, would rank him second in all-rounders behind Kapil Dev too....but a magnicent bowler..
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:55 pm

TBH since 2002 other finger spinners excluding Lyons, averages 55 in Australia so in those numbers Ashwin numbers is average or par.
like I said he hasn't really had much opportunities to play abroad yet, so the next 18 month will determine if he can bowl outside asia or not.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby shankycricket » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:14 pm

How is he India's best ever spinner when he gets regularly outbowled by Jadeja every time they play together? He is not even their best spinner in the current team.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:27 pm

Games played together=28.

Ashwin: Wickets 167/Average 22.6/SR 51/ Econ 2.7.
Jadeja: Wickets 143/ Average 20.7/SR 55/Econ 2.3.

Jadeja fewer wickets and worse strike rate, better average and econ.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby yuppie » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:54 am

There is talk that Ashwin might not even start the first game against SA when India tour SA.

The question must be that if he was such a great spinner, surely his place would not be in question? Especially with his recent record.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Adi » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:46 am

Dr Cricket wrote:TBH India not really known for all rounders.
I can only think of two all rounders that played a decent amount kapil Dev and irfan Pathan.
So from that two Ashwin is clearly matching Dev in impact and is better than Pathan.

Agree with your point but apart from lyon finger spinners don’t do well in Australia.



You are missing Ravi and Manoj in that list. Ravi Shastri had a long test career. Manoj Prabhakar played more tests than Irfan.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby Adi » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:26 am

Ashwin is easily the better spinner than Jaddu. He is India's best spinner at this point of time. There is no comparison between both of them as far as bowling is concerned. One is clearly better than other imo. Jaddu is good than other spinners but not when compared with Ashwin.

Ashwin is also a better bat than Jaddu.

However, when we compare fielding Jaddu's fielding is in different class as compared to that of Ashwin.
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Re: Ashwin

Postby backfootpunch » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:40 pm

yuppie wrote:There is talk that Ashwin might not even start the first game against SA when India tour SA.

The question must be that if he was such a great spinner, surely his place would not be in question? Especially with his recent record.

It is telling that he plays very little outside of friendly conditions
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Re: Ashwin

Postby yuppie » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:44 pm

For 2017 Jaddu has 3 less wickets with one less game played. But has a better average, strike rate and economy rate.

That is over 9 test matches so it is fairly good sample size.

Interesting that for 2017 that Lyon has one less wicket than Ashwin, played 2 less games, has a better average, strike rate and economy rate.
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