What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

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What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:13 pm

As it been noted many times it is time for india to go for their epic Away quest all in one go, probably the last time a schedule like this will take place considering next time around BCCI will be calling the shots in the schedule and basically been give 2 home slots a season and made sure they will never tour all at once or play at home all at once, but they stopped long tours.

Anyway what results do you think india needs to confirm the number 1 rest.

To get the ball starting I reckon 4-5 wins out of the 12 test should be enough, considering no one else is been making a decent argument for the world number 1 tag india could actually lose all 3 series and still be able to confirm the tag since they only really need to be competitive to match other away team results.

Disagree with Sussex assessment that india will lose all the 12 test easily, considering india look like they got the players to compete, can't really see much weak links present at the moment from the first team squad, only really dhawan looks a weak link and he isn't even guaranteed to play games and if he fails another opener is ready to replace him quickly.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:40 pm

one thing that will give the team hope his the pace attack probably the best one india assembled since 2007 period when Zak was leading it although this one got better depth than just Zaheer khan and support from Sreesanth/Rp Singh.

Shami and Bhuvi is up there with the rest of the fast bowlers in the world and like Simon Doull said both can match any fast bowlers from other nations.
Ishant is bowling well in the last couple of years and I reckon 3rd seam option is perfect for him allows him to bowl donkey overs which he is quite good at doing and let Shami and Bhuvi bowling smaller spells and look for wickets.
Yadav and bumrah as reserve.

if the batting clicks and lets be honest barring the England tour the batting got runs in SA and Australia then the bowlers should have the opportunity to win games, the question is will they take it.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:47 pm

Batting stats for the batsman

Dhawans Averages 27.83 in Aus, 20 in England and 19 in SA.
Vijay averages 60 in Aus, 40 in England and 29.33 in SA.
Kohli average 62 in Aus , 13 in England and 68 in SA
Pujara averages 33 in Aus, 22 in England and 44 in SA
Rahane averages 57 in Aus, 33 in England and 69 in SA.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Adi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:07 pm

We have done very badly in England, Australia and South Africa. The batsmen are very prone to failure whenever we have toured to these countries. The match winning bowlers (spinners) being toothless due to wickets not being conducive to spin, we have struggled with the bowling attack as well. I am not sure when we will win a test series while touring any of these 3 countries.

When did we actually win a test series last time in any of those 3 countries? I don't think we have won even one test series in last 3 decades in England, Australia and South Africa.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:33 pm

2007 in England.
drew in 2002 as well in england.

in australia drew in 2002 and Won a test in 2008 and should have really been a 1-1 series result or even a win for india if umpiring was any good.

SA won a test in 2006 and 2011.
Not all doom and gloom and where is the batting failures, considering india batting hasn't actually failed much overseas since 2000 certainly not in my lifetime of watching cricket.
the only period where I seen india batting fail overseas was in 2011 when the old guns were close to retirement and in 2014 england.
barring that never seen india batting failed overseas.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:35 pm

Although it is true that we never won a test series in SA or Australia.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:44 pm

Also don't agree with the statement of very badly either in those 3 countries considering in the past 17 years.
in england the record is 3 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in Australia the record is 2 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in SA the record is 2 wins, 2 draws and 4 losses.

not really any different to those 3 teams record in India or even asia for the matter.
Really don't understand why generally their is more scrutiny on india results overseas or their batting record but the same stuff isn't being said to other teams or other batsman.
Their batting is not been a problem either overseas it generally been the bowlers.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Adi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pm

So just one series win (versus England)from all test series played by us in last 3 decades in Australia, SA and England.

More players should play at least half season of county cricket. Similarly more matches on A Tours should be played in SA and AUS.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Adi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:49 pm

Dr Cricket wrote:Also don't agree with the statement of very badly either in those 3 countries considering in the past 17 years.
in england the record is 3 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in Australia the record is 2 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in SA the record is 2 wins, 2 draws and 4 losses.

not really any different to those 3 teams record in India or even asia for the matter.
Really don't understand why generally their is more scrutiny on india results overseas or their batting record but the same stuff isn't being said to other teams or other batsman.
Their batting is not been a problem either overseas it generally been the bowlers.



Just because other teams are bad when they tour, it does not gives us a license to be bad as well.

India is a major cricketing team with a vast domestic cricketing system and increasingly better facilities and cricket infrastructure. So we should be playing top class cricket and not like other countries. I do not mean we should win every overseas tour in OZ, SA and England but just one test series win in 3 decades is pathetic given we are a major cricket team. At least few series win.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:52 pm

if you going by the last 30 years then didn't india win in england during the late 80s as well.
Also if you follow the A tours system you would know india play lots of matches in Australia and SA, pretty much india goes abroad to these countries every year.
they also got a A team tour to england in 2018 which is a great deal from ECB/BCCI been calling for that one for at least 5 yrs now.
Good to see ECB signing that one up.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Adi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:58 pm

Dr Cricket wrote:if you going by the last 30 years then didn't india win in england during the late 80s as well.
Also if you follow the A tours system you would know india play lots of matches in Australia and SA, pretty much india goes abroad to these countries every year.
they also got a A team tour to england in 2018 which is a great deal from ECB/BCCI been calling for that one for at least 5 yrs now.
Good to see ECB signing that one up.


Again, just because we did not win in 80s does not means we should not win in next 3 decades. I took last 3 decades because I did not follow cricket in 80's.

We play 3 matches on A tours. It is of little help. Batsman and bowlers have to play entire season to get experience. At least half season in domestic cricket of those countries. 3 matches are not sufficient to gain enough from the tours.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:58 pm

Adi wrote:
Dr Cricket wrote:Also don't agree with the statement of very badly either in those 3 countries considering in the past 17 years.
in england the record is 3 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in Australia the record is 2 wins 5 draws and 8 losses
in SA the record is 2 wins, 2 draws and 4 losses.

not really any different to those 3 teams record in India or even asia for the matter.
Really don't understand why generally their is more scrutiny on india results overseas or their batting record but the same stuff isn't being said to other teams or other batsman.
Their batting is not been a problem either overseas it generally been the bowlers.



Just because other teams are bad when they tour, it does not gives us a license to be bad as well.

India is a major cricketing team with a vast domestic cricketing system and increasingly better facilities and cricket infrastructure. So we should be playing top class cricket and not like other countries. I do not mean we should win every overseas tour in OZ, SA and England but just one test series win in 3 decades is pathetic given we are a major cricket team. At least few series win.


india only been a major cricketing team with a the resource you mention since maybe 2002 or 2003 and they only revamped the cricket infrastructure and facilties since 2011 so it is fair that only result now should be judge on their away record and not what happened in the 90s or the 80s or whenever that you and Sussex like to point out.
although do agree with your point that india shouldn't accept being bad and that in reality india and england should be a top test team in every conditions and shouldn't accept being bad.
but india wasn't a top cricket nation in the 80s or 90s, they didn't even have good facilities then or good training wickets.

But yes with the facilities England and India got they really should do better overseas and should look to win a test every single time they play with the money they spent and the facilities they have.

But the main thing is the players should be judge on what happens now and not on past result or in some case what happen 20 yrs in the past.
because their no logic in saying india can't win in 2018 because they lost in 1988.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:05 pm

Adi wrote:
Dr Cricket wrote:if you going by the last 30 years then didn't india win in england during the late 80s as well.
Also if you follow the A tours system you would know india play lots of matches in Australia and SA, pretty much india goes abroad to these countries every year.
they also got a A team tour to england in 2018 which is a great deal from ECB/BCCI been calling for that one for at least 5 yrs now.
Good to see ECB signing that one up.


Again, just because we did not win in 80s does not means we should not win in next 3 decades. I took last 3 decades because I did not follow cricket in 80's.

We play 3 matches on A tours. It is of little help. Batsman and bowlers have to play entire season to get experience. At least half season in domestic cricket of those countries. 3 matches are not sufficient to gain enough from the tours.

Impossible to play an entire season of county cricket or even half a season of county cricket especially for an indian considering the visa requirements means fringe indian players or youngster can't play county cricket until they actually play for india yet and if they play for india they can't even play county cricket because of international commitments.

also if they in the A team system they should be playing around 8-12 games over 18 month period so that is close to being a half or full season also if anything it is better than playing county or domestic cricket since they will be facing the best bowlers the other country could send.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Dr Cricket » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:12 pm

Difference being now india not relying on their spinners to take wickets, Bhuvi, Shami etc are capable to take wickets and win games.
in the past india had no bowlers to take wickets to win games the times they did win test or series they had either Zaheer khan or Kapil dev taking wickets.
haven't really had much of a bowling attack so it is nice from the indian point of view to be able to have a squad of 7 bowlers that are largely trustworthy and dependable to do a job.
weakest bowlers or the least trustworthy is Pandya and he is an all rounder and in reality him bowling 10 overs an innings is his job and he can do that well.
if india didn't have the bowlers it would be all doom and gloom though.
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Re: What india needs to achieve to confirm number 1 ranking.

Postby Adi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:25 pm

Comparatively we have won a lot of ODI's in those countries than the number of tests we have won. Test format has been very tough for us in unfamiliar conditions.

It is good to see that Prithvi Shaw and Sarfaraz Khan toured England at very young age. But then that will at the most lead to individual superstars rather than a good unit as a whole overseas.
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