Australia ball-tampering scandal

What's buzzing in the world of cricket....

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby andy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:20 pm

Right guys i've had some time to think about the bans, and i have strong thoughts on the whole thing, most of you will not agree, and it may flare something up but i need to say how i feel on this matter:

Ever since the rumours etc came out, i had a bad feeling about this, and for me shows that there is clearly a huge problem in the Australia dressing room, led by no suprise David Warner. The fact that he chose the cowards' way and 'delegated' this to his young opening partner in Cam Bancroft, illustrates one of the key points in that dressong room....which to me says that there is an element of a bullying dynamic in that dressing room, He couldn't fulfill the indiscretion himself, and therefore sucked in a promising young player at the start of his career, who obviously thought that due to the team dynamics that he had to do this, to in a manner of speaking, stay in the side. Steve Smith completely saddens me with this. A fantastic batsman, and the nation's sweetheart, someone who had the world at his feet, has just thrown everything away over a piece of sandpaper, and that saddens me, The world class bowling attack Australia has, didn't need to go down this route at all, they have enough to bowl any side out, anywhere, and it's just devastating to see them go down this route. The thing that really saddens me though is, Darren Lehman, and CA'S inablity to see that somehow he must have had a role in this. I know innocent till proven guilty, but this is a guy who has clearly changed the team and the mannerisms since taking over. A guy who has instilled, a bit of 'the old aussie way', since taking over from Mickey Arthur. A guy who has always gone to any length to win a game of cricket. Now it's clearly incriminating that he was on that radio, with Peter Handscomb, telling Bancroft he had been caught...if he knew nothing about it, then he wouldn't have done anything... im very sure that he had a key role to play in this, and i feel that there's so much more to come out of all this...

Now the bit that will really cause some arguing, i apolgise, if it does, but i feel strongly about this

The reason i feel so strongly about the length of the bans, and the reason i feel they should be shortter is: If you go onto the field, and spontaneously dig nails in, and/or change the ball on the spot, that is bad enough, but people have done it, apolgised moved on....this was clearly a pre-planned bit of action, a team has decided before going on the field they are going to cheat, no matter what, and clearly decieve the game of cricket....I feel that techincially it falls under cheating, as does spot-fixing.... so for me, in my eyes, i feel that this should be treated with the seriousness of spot fixing and any other cheating...im not taking prison sentences, that's crazy....however this would be my punishments and why

Steve Smith - 10 years: The captain, he knew about all of this, and didn't try and stop it, for me similair to Salman Butt...didn't fix/cheat himself, but as the captain there is no coming back from this, and the shame he has brought onto the game...and has literally showed no signs of remorse, he dosen't even seem sorry

David Warner - life. Yes i know it may seem harsh, but it's not the first time he has brought the game into disrepute, He showed many signs of cowardice, and he couldn't bring himslf to do the crime and handed it down to a young man starting out his career for the first time. it seems he and CA will be going their seperate ways anyway, for me this is one step too many

Cam Bancroft: 3 -5 years: I feel a little for the guy here, obviously has come into the side and it appears that he may have been coaxed into doing this, i highly doubt a guy starting his test career would do something like this, off of his own back, however that being said, he did commit the crime and therefore punihshment should be served

The thing that upsets me the most though is Steve Smith. Hasn't showed any signs of remorse, or genuinely looked dissapointed, and had they not been caught, there is no way they would have admitted, and it probably would still go on...

again i apolgise if this is all to controversial but i had to say it, and i obviuosly am prepeared for the wave of comments that will probably come my way
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests
2018 - NZ vs Pak t20 FL winner2018 - SA vs Ind test match fl winner US open golf FL [color=#0000FF] - [color=#FF0000]Open golf FL winner



Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 17721
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby meninblue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:04 pm

andy wrote:Right guys i've had some time to think about the bans, and i have strong thoughts on the whole thing, most of you will not agree, and it may flare something up but i need to say how i feel on this matter:

Ever since the rumours etc came out, i had a bad feeling about this, and for me shows that there is clearly a huge problem in the Australia dressing room, led by no suprise David Warner. The fact that he chose the cowards' way and 'delegated' this to his young opening partner in Cam Bancroft, illustrates one of the key points in that dressong room....which to me says that there is an element of a bullying dynamic in that dressing room, He couldn't fulfill the indiscretion himself, and therefore sucked in a promising young player at the start of his career, who obviously thought that due to the team dynamics that he had to do this, to in a manner of speaking, stay in the side. Steve Smith completely saddens me with this. A fantastic batsman, and the nation's sweetheart, someone who had the world at his feet, has just thrown everything away over a piece of sandpaper, and that saddens me, The world class bowling attack Australia has, didn't need to go down this route at all, they have enough to bowl any side out, anywhere, and it's just devastating to see them go down this route. The thing that really saddens me though is, Darren Lehman, and CA'S inablity to see that somehow he must have had a role in this. I know innocent till proven guilty, but this is a guy who has clearly changed the team and the mannerisms since taking over. A guy who has instilled, a bit of 'the old aussie way', since taking over from Mickey Arthur. A guy who has always gone to any length to win a game of cricket. Now it's clearly incriminating that he was on that radio, with Peter Handscomb, telling Bancroft he had been caught...if he knew nothing about it, then he wouldn't have done anything... im very sure that he had a key role to play in this, and i feel that there's so much more to come out of all this...

Now the bit that will really cause some arguing, i apolgise, if it does, but i feel strongly about this

The reason i feel so strongly about the length of the bans, and the reason i feel they should be shortter is: If you go onto the field, and spontaneously dig nails in, and/or change the ball on the spot, that is bad enough, but people have done it, apolgised moved on....this was clearly a pre-planned bit of action, a team has decided before going on the field they are going to cheat, no matter what, and clearly decieve the game of cricket....I feel that techincially it falls under cheating, as does spot-fixing.... so for me, in my eyes, i feel that this should be treated with the seriousness of spot fixing and any other cheating...im not taking prison sentences, that's crazy....however this would be my punishments and why

Steve Smith - 10 years: The captain, he knew about all of this, and didn't try and stop it, for me similair to Salman Butt...didn't fix/cheat himself, but as the captain there is no coming back from this, and the shame he has brought onto the game...and has literally showed no signs of remorse, he dosen't even seem sorry

David Warner - life. Yes i know it may seem harsh, but it's not the first time he has brought the game into disrepute, He showed many signs of cowardice, and he couldn't bring himslf to do the crime and handed it down to a young man starting out his career for the first time. it seems he and CA will be going their seperate ways anyway, for me this is one step too many

Cam Bancroft: 3 -5 years: I feel a little for the guy here, obviously has come into the side and it appears that he may have been coaxed into doing this, i highly doubt a guy starting his test career would do something like this, off of his own back, however that being said, he did commit the crime and therefore punihshment should be served

The thing that upsets me the most though is Steve Smith. Hasn't showed any signs of remorse, or genuinely looked dissapointed, and had they not been caught, there is no way they would have admitted, and it probably would still go on...

again i apolgise if this is all to controversial but i had to say it, and i obviuosly am prepeared for the wave of comments that will probably come my way



Warner played a lead role in 2nd test from what i read. It was because he was accused of tampering he passed on this role to someone else in next test.

Steven Smith had a reputation of claiming the dropped catch. It was against Pakistan. Then the DRS brainfade. In this he made Cameron scapegoat saying Cameron told em to take dressing rooms help. And now this incident, here too he has put Cameron ahead. Atleast that Afridi did it all by hinmself. Here Smith is using juniors to hide behind his faults or tactics.
Test FL's - 8 , ODI and Tests Combo FL's - 1, ODI World Cup - 1, ODI FL's - 7, ODI and T20i combo FL's - 1 ,
T20 Franchisee FL's - 6, T20i Cup FL's- 1, T20 FL's- 5 , 50 Overs Domestic FL's - 1, 40 Overs Domestic FL's- 1
User avatar
meninblue
 
Posts: 22566
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby andy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:33 pm

ah yes completely forgot about smith and handscomb and DRS gate in India
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests
2018 - NZ vs Pak t20 FL winner2018 - SA vs Ind test match fl winner US open golf FL [color=#0000FF] - [color=#FF0000]Open golf FL winner



Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 17721
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:40 pm

You could probably quite easily argue for an Australian ban for a specific number of years as this is not down to one individual but a collective, and I'm sure Lehman was well aware what was going on as well.
budgetmeansbudget
 
Posts: 16495
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: Poole
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire CCC
AFC Bournemouth
Livingston FC
Havant & Waterlooville FC
Poole Town FC
Chicago Bears
Poole Pirates

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby mikesiva » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:51 pm

Wow andy you're a hard man.
:)
I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I believe everyone deserves a chance for rehabilitation. Even Warner.

I think the punishment is probably about right. I probably would have followed from_the_stands proposal and given six months but there you go.

I do agree that Lehmann seems to have got away with it. The bowlers are feigning ignorance too.

It's a bad week for the whole team.
Nobody has a stance quite like the mighty Shivnarine....

Australia-New Zealand ODI's Prediction Guru
2009 spring chess league guru
Pakistan vs Australia ODI's Prediction Guru
World 20/20 Prediction Guru
2010-2011 final places Premiership footy prediction guru
2011 French Open tennis prediction guru
2011 Bang vs WI combined fantasy guru
2012 Caribbean T20 fantasy guru
2012 Euros prediction guru
2012-2013 final places Premiership footy prediction guru
2013 Champions League prediction guru
2013 chess mini-tournament guru
2014 Eng-SL combined fantasy guru
2014 chess mini-tournament guru
2017 Australian Open tennis guru
User avatar
mikesiva
 
Posts: 35136
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:41 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Team(s) Supported: First - West Indies
Joint Second - England, Sri Lanka

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby andy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:53 pm

mikesiva wrote:Wow andy you're a hard man.
:)
I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree. I believe everyone deserves a chance for rehabilitation. Even Warner.

I think the punishment is probably about right. I probably would have followed from_the_stands proposal and given six months but there you go.

I do agree that Lehmann seems to have got away with it. The bowlers are feigning ignorance too.

It's a bad week for the whole team.



i know lol, i doubt anyone will agree with me, but had to share my opinon with someone lol
2012 - ENG vs SA ODI series winner
2013 - US Open golf winner, WI vs PAK winner , ENG vs OZ ODI and T20 winner
2015- Open golf championship winner
2017 - OZ vs Pak odi'S, AUS vs NZ ODI, NZ vs SA Tests , WI vs PAK tests
2018 - NZ vs Pak t20 FL winner2018 - SA vs Ind test match fl winner US open golf FL [color=#0000FF] - [color=#FF0000]Open golf FL winner



Essex CCC county champions
andy
 
Posts: 17721
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:25 pm
Location: Essex
Team(s) Supported: Essex CCC
West ham united
Sunrisers Hyderberad
England

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby sussexpob » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:44 pm

Lehmann apparently radioed Handscomb to say "what the **** is going on here". Its these handful of words that have saved his job. With the microscope so close to events, and a public hungry for blood, I am satisfied that Lehmann must have been ignorant to the events. If there had been a sniff of him being involved, they'd have sacked him. Whether or not he should keep his job on other issues, another conversation.

Not really sure how Warner is becoming the most culpable person here. To me, it seems a bit more like an argument that is trying to heap it all on the easy fall guy, try to salvage a reputation for Smith to come back to. The decision at the end of the day was Smith's to make, he has to take the most criticism.

One year. Its harsh, no doubt about that, but its fair too I think. I am actually impressed that for once, a cricket board looked at the bigger picture and took action that will no doubt help to restore faith in the game. We can get into all kinds of discussions about punishments, but the reputation of Australian cricket needs to rebuild without Smith and Warner being present. Then when it dies down, they can come back.

Warner's ban feels like a lifetime one. I cant see him reintegrating into the team again. And will whoever becomes captain want a toxic presence like Smith in the team again? Do the time, there should be no reason for me why Smith isnt able to continue. Yet, there is a question mark about how this will effect him and his future output, or whether in fact he will even want to do it, he might favour a T20 career on high money than step back into that dressing room and take the long path to redemption.

I am a big believer in redemption mind. He will wear what hes done for the rest of his life, but he's copped a huge punishment for these actions, in a years time he should be able to continue without prejudice towards his selection.
2010 French Open fantasy league guru 2010 Wimbledon fantasy league guru 2014 Masters golf fantasy guru 2015 Players Championship FL Guru 2016 Masters Golf Fantasy Guru

And a hat and bra to you too, my good sirs!
sussexpob
 
Posts: 26226
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:14 pm
Location: Asker, Norway
Team(s) Supported: Sussex and England Cricket, Vålerenga Fotball/FC Barcelona/Seagulls! ....
England and Norway at everything else

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:19 pm

A years ban seems about right. I still don't see how Lehmann has got off, unless he's just a silent partner type of coach!!!

Not that it maked it right, but haven't players been scuffing or interfering with the ball for years now? I remember Athers rubbing some dirt on it once.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 19768
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:32 pm

andy wrote:The world class bowling attack Australia has, didn't need to go down this route at all, they have enough to bowl any side out, anywhere, and it's just devastating to see them go down this route.


Don't feel this is true. All teams prep the ball. It's just a matter of method. No team is innocent of the occult arts of ball maintenance.
2012-13 SL vs NZ combined fantasy guru

I always say that everybody's right.
User avatar
Arthur Crabtree
 
Posts: 58741
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:52 pm
Location: Nottingham
Team(s) Supported: Yorkshire/New England.

Australia ball-tampering scandal

Postby meninblue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:37 pm

Gingerfinch wrote:A years ban seems about right. I still don't see how Lehmann has got off, unless he's just a silent partner type of coach!!!

Not that it maked it right, but haven't players been scuffing or interfering with the ball for years now? I remember Athers rubbing some dirt on it once.


One difference is no fans of other countries have reacted so angrily towards their own players in cases of ball tampering.Aussie fans did, so much was the opposition from fans that even broadcasters were worried and talked about the contracts negotiation with CA. Sponsors would not take risk to associate themselves with these players whom fans were severely demanding punishment against. PM also stepped in. The evidence was so much as it was a plan to catch them on cameras, that Smith had to accept. also he said that it was leadership plan it got more spotlight. Whereas SA fans had accepted when Faf did same. In fact Faf initially denied it. So the reactions in this case was far too much to avoid.
Test FL's - 8 , ODI and Tests Combo FL's - 1, ODI World Cup - 1, ODI FL's - 7, ODI and T20i combo FL's - 1 ,
T20 Franchisee FL's - 6, T20i Cup FL's- 1, T20 FL's- 5 , 50 Overs Domestic FL's - 1, 40 Overs Domestic FL's- 1
User avatar
meninblue
 
Posts: 22566
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby meninblue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:42 pm

Afridi got captaincy in all formats after the series where he did ball biting act. Here CA have banned Smith and Warner for a year.
Test FL's - 8 , ODI and Tests Combo FL's - 1, ODI World Cup - 1, ODI FL's - 7, ODI and T20i combo FL's - 1 ,
T20 Franchisee FL's - 6, T20i Cup FL's- 1, T20 FL's- 5 , 50 Overs Domestic FL's - 1, 40 Overs Domestic FL's- 1
User avatar
meninblue
 
Posts: 22566
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby Gingerfinch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:51 pm

Adi wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote:A years ban seems about right. I still don't see how Lehmann has got off, unless he's just a silent partner type of coach!!!

Not that it maked it right, but haven't players been scuffing or interfering with the ball for years now? I remember Athers rubbing some dirt on it once.


One difference is no fans of other countries have reacted so angrily towards their own players in cases of ball tampering.Aussie fans did, so much was the opposition from fans that even broadcasters were worried and talked about the contracts negotiation with CA. Sponsors would not take risk to associate themselves with these players whom fans were severely demanding punishment against. PM also stepped in. The evidence was so much as it was a plan to catch them on cameras, that Smith had to accept. also he said that it was leadership plan it got more spotlight. Whereas SA fans had accepted when Faf did same. In fact Faf initially denied it. So the reactions in this case was far too much to avoid.


The outcry has surprised me tbh. I said a year ban was about right, but I would have been happy with a massive fine and a 6 month one.
2014 SA-Oz Tests fantasy guru
User avatar
Gingerfinch
 
Posts: 19768
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:18 pm
Location: Oxford
Team(s) Supported: Wycombe Wanderers.

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby meninblue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:00 pm

Gingerfinch wrote:
Adi wrote:
Gingerfinch wrote:A years ban seems about right. I still don't see how Lehmann has got off, unless he's just a silent partner type of coach!!!

Not that it maked it right, but haven't players been scuffing or interfering with the ball for years now? I remember Athers rubbing some dirt on it once.


One difference is no fans of other countries have reacted so angrily towards their own players in cases of ball tampering.Aussie fans did, so much was the opposition from fans that even broadcasters were worried and talked about the contracts negotiation with CA. Sponsors would not take risk to associate themselves with these players whom fans were severely demanding punishment against. PM also stepped in. The evidence was so much as it was a plan to catch them on cameras, that Smith had to accept. also he said that it was leadership plan it got more spotlight. Whereas SA fans had accepted when Faf did same. In fact Faf initially denied it. So the reactions in this case was far too much to avoid.


The outcry has surprised me tbh. I said a year ban was about right, but I would have been happy with a massive fine and a 6 month one.



Yes, it's a reasonable ban to send a strong message to other CA contracted players. 6 months would also have had an impact. Players were making a joke of the one match ICC bans and taking risks due to almost negligible ban punishment. This was required to set a good precedent.
Test FL's - 8 , ODI and Tests Combo FL's - 1, ODI World Cup - 1, ODI FL's - 7, ODI and T20i combo FL's - 1 ,
T20 Franchisee FL's - 6, T20i Cup FL's- 1, T20 FL's- 5 , 50 Overs Domestic FL's - 1, 40 Overs Domestic FL's- 1
User avatar
meninblue
 
Posts: 22566
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby bigfluffylemon » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Adi wrote:Afridi got captaincy in all formats after the series where he did ball biting act. Here CA have banned Smith and Warner for a year.


I always felt Pakistan were too lenient on discipline. It wasn't just him - Akhtar kept getting away with crap for years.

I respectfully can't agree with you on the length of the bans, andy, but I understand why you feel that way. Personally I think they're on the harsh but fair side. As I previously said, every team pushes the line of what they can do with the ball. I was listening to the TMS podcast with Vaughan and Tuffers, and Vaughan was challenged on what the difference was between this and using saliva laced with Murray Mints. His defence was rather less than convincing, frankly. If this signals that all cricket is going to take a tougher line in future, then that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, but there's a pretty fine line between taking a foreign object onto the field specifically to interfere with the ball, and interfering with the ball using an object that is ostensibly for another purpose, and hence permitted on the field.

I do feel that the game would be diminished if Smith never plays again, much as it pains me to say it. He should serve a hefty punishment, no-one disagrees there, but to me this isn't like match fixing or doping. There is some potential good that can come from this in the long run if the Aussie team cleans up and Smith is rehabilitated into the team - it will serve as an example for how people can learn from their mistakes in sport, as much as anything else.

I'm not going to miss Warner though. Hard to know if he really is behind it all, or is being made the fall guy, but either way, the team and management seem to have lined up to throw him under the bus for this, so I can't see he could ever come back into the dressing room. But I don't have much sympathy - he does have previous form. Quite a lot of it.
User avatar
bigfluffylemon
 
Posts: 3083
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:40 am
Team(s) Supported: England. Australia.
Any team playing good cricket in the right spirit.

Re: Australia in South Africa in 2018.

Postby budgetmeansbudget » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:36 pm

At the end of the day it's another nail in the coffin of test cricket.
budgetmeansbudget
 
Posts: 16495
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: Poole
Team(s) Supported: Hampshire CCC
AFC Bournemouth
Livingston FC
Havant & Waterlooville FC
Poole Town FC
Chicago Bears
Poole Pirates

PreviousNext

Return to International Cricket

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests