England from 526 to 1000.

[Durhamfootman]

it should get easier from 2004 onwards

[Arthur Crabtree]

I'm ok to the Flower/Cook era when my support for England became ambiguous at best. But now we are entering my peak years as an England supporter (2000-07), even if I can't remember them as well as when I was younger.

[sussexpob]

I notice Cairns was batting at 11 for NZ, and (batting within himself) supported Astle to add 118 in 15 overs. I presume Cairns had been injured. Can't remember that.

Yeah, he broke down right at the start of the innings. New Zealand only picked four specialists for the game, all three of the seamers were perennially injured types. Chris Drum looked a decent player but his body was never up for it. And Butler too had a decent nip of pace but had fitness issue. Was a pretty suicidal selection for a pitch that ended up being dead as a dodo, especially as Cairns by this stage was injured more than he played. Craig Macmillan was brought on first change area, and the boys tucked into the buffet and didnt look back.

In fact, did New Zealand ever have anyone fit in this era? Simon Doull, Nash, Bond..... always seemed like NZ had a talent paceman ready to breakdown and play only 20 games in a decade.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Yeah, he broke down right at the start of the innings. New Zealand only picked four specialists for the game...

Great info, thanks.

As I'm sure I've said before, I followed some of this Test on ceefax, and remember Astle's innings as his score went up by four every time the screen refreshed. Can't remember if the reason I was watching teletext was because I wouldn't listen to Talksport, or my radio had broken.

[Durhamfootman]

I remember talksport giving full commentary to the England tour of SA in the year 4. Athers and Jack Bannister commentating, amongst others. It was the only time I can remember them devoting whole days to cricket coverage. Had they done this prior to 04?

[Arthur Crabtree]

Apparently the last time they had them was 2004-5 in SA as you say. Can't discover when they had them before then, but they have covered a series in the WI. So that might have been the previous winter tour in early 04.

[sussexpob]

Talksport have the India away series this winter, I believe

[Arthur Crabtree]

August 14-18, England beat South Africa by 70 runs at Trent Bridge.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/151 ... eland-2003

2003 was a better year for England. They began by beating Australia in a very dead rubber in Sydney. Michael Vaughan completed a sublime series with 183 in the second innings, though without facing Shane Warne or Glenn McGrath. Zimbabwe and Bangladesh were duly dispatched and the only series loss was in Sri Lanka where they competed well.

The focus of the year was a drawn series at home to South Africa, when England came from behind twice to finish up 2-2. And had to fight hard for the two wins against a magnificent South Africa side. In a year where we lost Darren Gough, Andy Caddick and Alec Stewart, the debutants at Trent Bridge for the third Test weren't all that auspicious in the long term- Ed Smith and James Kirtley. Though the latter proved England's match winner.

Trent Bridge provided a better bowling pitch than the flat tracks on which Graeme Smith had slaughtered Gough, James Anderson and Steve Harmison at Edgbaston and Lord's (where England lost). And it deteriorated far too quickly and erratically for a fair game of cricket. But it did allow for a thrilling Test match. Mark Butcher and Nasser Hussain made hundreds out of 445 in the first innings when the going was good. The surface became increasingly capricious during South Africa's reply which makes Neil McKenzie, Mark Boucher and Shaun Pollock's recovery from 132-5 to 362 all out all the more creditable.

England won the game on that first innings lead. James Anderson took five wickets in a generally disappointing series. England were then shot out under lottery terms and conditions for 118. Hussain's two hour resistance perhaps deserves a bit more credit than his 30 runs indicate. If South Africa were dreaming this bowling success had got them back in the game, then it proved a brief illusion. The 202 runs they needed for victory was a distant horizon, and they didn't get close. James Kirtley took 6-34 and few deliveries didn't jag either way with unpredictable bounce.

Kirtley's Test career lasted four months; it seems England didn't believe his action would survive the scrutiny of international cricket. And there were injuries. He finished up with an innings defeat in Colombo after shipping 131 runs in his only bowling innings and watched Muralitharan bowl England out for 148. Such is the fascinating variety of Test cricket.

[Arthur Crabtree]

England's debutants in 2003.

Anthony McGrath
Gareth Batty
Rikki Clarke
Paul Collingwood
Ed Smith
James Anderson
Richard Johnson
James Kirtley
Kabir Ali
Mark Saggers

Only three of those had careers beyond the end of the year. And one of those was Gareth Batty who played in Antigua in 2004 and then wasn't seen again for over a decade. Just in case we tend to think Miller and Fletcher only pulled out aces en route to 2005.

[Arthur Crabtree]

Bicknell was recalled after ten years for the Oval and didn't play again.

Caddick took 11 wickets in Sydney and didn't play again. Kirtley took eight at Trent Bridge was gone in December. Bicknell took six wickets at the Oval and didn't play another game. Johnson took nine wickets in a game v BD, and played once more. Tough for bowlers.

McGrath averaged 40 with the bat and 14 with the ball and was gone by early summer.

They made up their minds much quicker back then. OK, injuries meant some of these lost their place. I suppose once the fab 4 were together, there just weren't spots up for grabs.

Chris Tremlett was well into his career too. Hindsight suggests he should have played a lot more. When available.

[sussexpob]

Not sure I could agree that the Saffer team was magnificant at this stage, its certainly the weakest bowling attack they have had in my memory since reintroduction. Pollock was about to go through some pretty poor years and had lost a significant amount of pace (averaged nearly 40 per wicket in his last 4 test years away, and that includes series in BD and Zim where he averaged 10 and 7 per wicket), and the rest of the unit was very poor. Ntini at this time was being overworked and had stressed he needed a rest, and was not the same player as usual. Kallis missed the first 3 tests I believe. Pretorious, Willougby, Peterson and Adams was an attack youd expect to find playing for Northants in league 2 of the County Championship, two very average spinners and two medium pace trundlers. Zondeki, the young hope, broke down in his first spell and hardly played again.

The batting was also a mix of some quality, but way too many players the selectors hoped, more than expected, to eventually come good. Dippenaar was a seriously flawed cricketer who smashed runs for fun in the lower levels. MacKensie never produced, despite always looking like he should. Jacques Rudolph scored that double V BD that seemingly guaranteed him an extra 30 games, but he was technically destroyed. Boucher never averaged much over 25 vs anyone remotely good, and clearly struggled with the movement past the bat in England, he dropped countless chances in English conditions.

So you are left with the dogged Kirsten, Gibbs who is another I am suspiciously left wondering if this is well past his sell by date considering his average dropped about 10 runs in the latter half of his career, he had some real disaster years around this time where he could barely score a run. Smith... and Kallis, who I believe as said, missed both SA wins. It was a team ripe for being beaten away, even by a less than glamorous side. Kallis has a pretty trainwreck batting record in England too considering his averages elsewhere. Was never anywhere near a class player in English conditions.

Of course, in the end England dropped Graeme Smith 165 times and lost two tests as a result. Smith scored 700 runs in the series, but should have scored 7. I honestly dont know of another bat who has had more luck vs England in my lifetime. He kept wafting at wide away swingers, finding fielders, only for them to drop him. And it continued into the series in 2008 when England refused to get him out at Edgbaston, when he won a game having been dropped about 8 times.

[Arthur Crabtree]

I think Pollock and Ntini were very good on that tour. Ntini won the Lord's Test on a good batting pitch. Kallis missed two out of five Test but had a good series with the ball, as did Hall. I suppose SA weren't at their peak (post Donald) and they never had a spinner, but they were still a hard team to beat and the tail was still hard to shift, with Hall and Pollack making runs. Gibbs, Kisten and Smith were prodigious early in the series, followed by Kallis, who was at his peak. Those four might be in a post apartheid first XI. England fought back well, notably at the Oval when they were a long way behind and from being flayed in Birmingham and at Lord's.

Edit out the magnificent and replace with very strong.

[Durhamfootman]

Gibbs, Kisten and Smith were prodigious early in the series, followed by Kallis, who was at his peak. Those four might be in a post apartheid first XI. England fought back well, notably at the Oval when they were a long way behind and from being flayed in Birmingham and at Lord's.

they are certainly in mine (whenever Ian gets it up and running again)

[sussexpob]

I think Pollock and Ntini were very good on that tour. Ntini won the Lord's Test on a good batting pitch. Kallis missed two out of five Test but had a good series with the ball, as did Hall. I suppose SA weren't at their peak (post Donald) and they never had a spinner, but they were still a hard team to beat and the tail was still hard to shift, with Hall and Pollack making runs. Gibbs, Kisten and Smith were prodigious early in the series, followed by Kallis, who was at his peak. Those four might be in a post apartheid first XI. England fought back well, notably at the Oval when they were a long way behind and from being flayed in Birmingham and at Lord's.

Edit out the magnificent and replace with very strong.

Compare the team England got annihilated in during the first two tests in 2003, to the one they played a calendar year later in 2004. West Indies lost 7 out of 8 consecutive tests v England during 03-04 years and were ranked only just above BD, a line up that was considered at the time the worst the country have ever fielded, and one that was beaten everywhere.

Gayle (1 run) beats Gibbs
Graeme Smith (25) beats Devon Smith
Lara (8) beats Kirsten
Sarwan (10) beats Dippenaar
Chanderpaul (17) beats Rudolph
Dwayne Bravo (1) beats Boucher
Pollock (3) beats Jacobs
Banks and Peterson cancel out
Best (5) beats Pretorious
Both 10/11 combos are equally terrible

Windies actually combine for a better batting line up. At this point you could argue Im using finished career stats, but by memory only really Sarwan and Gibbs reduce noticeably, and both averaged near 50 or around to end up averaging low 40s. So its this stage they are on similar career paths.

Bowlers
South Africas 5 combine for 56.8..... you could argue that Pollock and Ntini should be weighed higher, but Pretorius and Peterson bowled the most overs in the sample tests.
West Indies. combine for 39.8 per wicket

On both accounts the West Indies were a better XI statistically, and we annihilated them as worst ranked non BD team 7-0.

Just look at a middling team like Sri Lanka. Not a single batsman averaged under 40 from the team England played in 2003. Pakistan at one stage around this time must have fielded Anwar before he retired in 2003, Ul Haq, Younis Khan, Yousuf and Misbah all in the same team. Australia had an XI averaging over 50 or around, even their 7 did. India had Gambhir debut in 2004, giving them a top 6 of Tendulkar, Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman and Ganguly... Dhoni joined not long after.

Having 3 players average 30 in your top 6 was catastrophic in 2003. Its an era of massive averages and huge run scoring.

[sussexpob]

Kallis does come into balance that later, but Windies also make a few changes to the line up that significantly lower their bowling average, while Mohammed also adds a similar batting average boost to Swapping over for Banks to that Kallis addition makes. Kallis return was actually at Kirstens expense, so the impact is nullified by them swapping one of their studs for another.

Lawson and Collymore bring averages for Windies down.

Cant be bothered to work it out, but its would be close... I think if I did, Id think SA shade the batting with Kallis and MacKensie, Windies make up for it by not fielding someone as terrible as PRetorious