The retirement thread

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Re: The retirement thread

Postby bigfluffylemon » Sat Jul 29, 2023 11:31 pm

Stuart Broad. :salute What a career, what a competitor.

I must admit I was a little surprised, but a wise man once said that it's better to retire when people's reaction is 'why' rather than 'why not'? He wants to go out at the top, and given his performance this series, I think he's done that.

'bowled Stu.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby sussexpob » Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:33 am

To play elite sport for 17 years, you need to be adaptable to the toll it takes on your body. For this reason, its normal that players who stick around for this long have to change, and can be somewhat hard to define when the dust settles on their career - in Broad's case, this is particularly difficult. In the end, players careers will be judged on the stats in the history books with very little context. On that regards, Broad will stand out for the longevity of his output, but in terms of quality, not extremely noticeable in the grand pantheon of historical legends. It feels both harsh, and true, to pigeon hole Broad's carer in such a way.

Add some context, and its easy to explain why he was more important than his stats suggest. In the burning detritous of the breakdown of the Fletcher era, the KP captaincy, and the Moores era that ended as abruptly as it started, he was in the side miles before he was ready as England's established stock of pace bowlers broke down. His figures reflect this - maybe if he had 2 or 3 extra years learning at the lower tier, his average would be better. And its easy to forget that the earlier part of his career spans a period where pace bowlers struggled across the board unless your name was Steyn.

How many players in history also played 17 years in an era of 3 formats and so much cricket? Maybe if he played 5 tests a year with no limited overs games, it's more comparable to those through history that will serve as a comparison. Its important in Broad's context, because being a consistent international front line player in every format took it's toll on his body. Even 10 years on, the management of pace bowlers is better, workloads are monitored, players rested - but this is a culture that was too late to maximise most of Broad's career. In the end we are left with a cricketer with many faces, and the feeling that to some extent there was potential left out on the field.

Back in 2007-09, he was the young, arrogant, combatitive embodiedment of cricketing entitlement - the son of a test player, public school, granny killer looks - as a cricketer he was raw, bowled quickly and too short, wanted the bounce and nip to do all the work. He then developed swing as a weapon, and used it to his advantage well.... but then, the toll of 3 formats really appeared to take its toll. The pace went down. England decided bizarrely to reduce his excellent swing bowling to being the person in the attack who just ran in and tested the middle of the deck. It felt a waste.

I guess every cricketer would like to have their career again blessed with the knowledge of what they have learned in older age, but in Broad's case, I think he is a number 1 candidate for this. Given another time, other circumstances, better coaches... I think he could have been a generational talent. When England managed his workloads, and when he has been fit enough to perform to his best, then left to bowl in the way most consistent with his talent, he's been a wonderful pro. But more than anyone, it has always felt like things always conspired against him somewhat.

As a character, he has also gone through a lot of transitions. First we had the entitled public school brat, which gave way to the pernnially angry fast bowler with some combat and willingness to spit a few words at the batter. On occasions this pushed him to the wrong side of acceptability, most noticably the edge that never was, but more so when I felt he was tremendously lucky not to get busted for ball tampering in South Africa, where he clearly sunk his studs into the rough side of the ball. Then we had the enforcer, which was pretty pathetic, before lastly becoming a statesman figure for the team in maturity - I have always assumed that the Nighthawk moniker was a p*ss take, and tongue in cheek. The abuse in Australia he received felt in many ways a transition point. He took it with maturity and good humour, and felt the point at which Broad transitioned into a mature cricketer.

In the end, Broad leaves a legacy of being a decent guy, and a great servant to English cricket. And 17 years at the top is all you need to say aobut his dedication to his craft and off-field professionalism. I wish him well in retirement, and no doubt expect he will be in the Sky box within 12 months. Many thanks, Stu.... some great memories in there.

Still, for me... what could have been given another time or circumstances?
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:49 pm

I have a feeling that Broad will be remembered first for for his partnership with Anderson, whereas Broad will be an afterthought in Anderson's career.

I used to think it was unrealistic to regard Broad in Anderson's shadow, as their records were very similar for most of their career, just that JA was a bit more economical. Broad was underrated. But sometime in the teens, Anderson went up another level and it's not reasonable to claim equality now.

And Broad has gaps in his résumé, with a generally poor record in Asia (particularly India) and an ordinary history in Australia. And those are arenas that JA cracked, to some extent.

Anderson had an intensity that Broad never shared, however much SB pouted and pointed. I found Anderson much less likeable, but though pretty dour, he had more presence on the pitch.

Still, most people will compare poorly to someone with nearly 700 Test wickets, and Broad got closer than any other Englishman. He'll be remembered for those starburst spells when ran through the opposition in an hour, particularly the 8-15 in the Ashes at Trent Bridge in 2015. When Anderson was injured...

Often great to watch him bat. Anonymous in the field. Seemed quite an affable fellow on being interviewed. He'll have a hell of a lot of glory to look back on, and few obvious regrets. Maybe he'll wish he hadn't missed out on the T20 boom.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Slipstream » Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:32 pm

142 dropped catches off his bowling
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:35 pm

Who by!?
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:41 pm

Broad got into some controversy about 5-7 years ago over a comment I just can't recall. I remember thinking the reaction was completely unjustified, but it sounded a bit entitled, which wasn't helped by his public school background. I've done few searches, but can't find it.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:47 pm

Ha, got it. A tweet- I’ve heard if you earn minimum wage in England you’re in the top 10% earners in the world. #stay #humble”
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Slipstream » Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:03 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Who by!?


Mainly in the slips. Also the keepers. We have quite a few different players since 2008 there..
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:07 pm

Wondered if they were listed.

That's a lot of dressing room apologies.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby sussexpob » Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:19 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Wondered if they were listed.

That's a lot of dressing room apologies.


Could be the reason Matt Prior retired... imagine dishing out a good portion of those 142 b*llockings? Must have tired him out
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Slipstream » Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:27 pm

Arthur Crabtree wrote:Ha, got it. A tweet- I’ve heard if you earn minimum wage in England you’re in the top 10% earners in the world. #stay #humble”


Ridiculous comment. Now he will be on the big money with SKY.

I liked watching Broad over his career, he had a presence which I will miss. I hope Tongue replaces him.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby alfie » Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:56 am

Going to miss Stuart Broad. Personality as much as cricketing skills. Always fun to watch - with bat as well as ball in hand !

He loved to stir up the opposition - especially Australians . But never had the sense there was any malice in it...all just good humoured banter. And that wretched failure to walk incident from years ago has been ludicrously overplayed - especially in Australia. Who walks these days unless they are clean bowled ?

As to the comparisons with Anderson : perhaps fair to say Broad was known for great spells rather more than sustained excellence ? He really did have a knack of turning it on to destroy an opposition in a matter of 5-8 overs when he had one of those days. Suspect he had more of those than almost any other bowler with comparable overall records. Like a lot of batsmen whose most spectacular innings resonate more than their raw figures ? That said , his figures aren't too bad at all ! And if not for Jimmy , his longevity would be unprecedented.

Look forward to hearing him on comms in the near future. Reckon he will be brilliant in the box...
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Slipstream » Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:08 pm

He loved Australia - Most wickets by any bowler against them, 153 wickets from 40 Tests.

Anderson's is India which is why I hope he goes there in 2024 but there is always the case that England has retired him already. Why would they play him in the 4th and 5th Tests when he wasn't getting any wickets? Can't wait to see if he gets another central contract.

Mail
'Anderson said Broad told him he was retiring over a coffee ahead of the third day, with the news 'not a surprise' considering captain Ben Stokes and coach Brendon McCullum had to talk him out of it a year earlier'.

Wonder what series Mccullum and Stokes talked him out of retiring. Must of been after the SA (Sept 2022) series before the Tests in Pakistan. Played 8 more Tests.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Arthur Crabtree » Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:33 pm

Anderson's on 690 wickets. Maybe he thought he would get to a landmark in this series. It seemed unlikely he wouldn't. perhaps that's a motivation to keep going.

I expect he was picked, even at the Oval, in the expectation he would come good and be a matchwinner. The fear that the match you drop him for, is the one he would have won for you. But in the next series, maybe that expectation will be less.

At home, if the spinner comes back and Stokes bowls, persumably Anderson has to be able to get in ahead of Robinson, Wood or Woakes. Though Wood will often be an injury doubt. Hardly formidable, but no longer a gimme.
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Re: The retirement thread

Postby Slipstream » Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:50 pm

When you compare his bowling to Woakes you wonder why. It was like night and day.

What he should do now is play for Lancs in September (4 matches) and see if it is the end.
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