Cricket-Match-Special ... A forum for discussion

A companion piece to the Archer thread is perhaps needed for this chap - in the light of his contrasting performances with bat and gloves these last few days ...

Suspect twenty four hours ago he was "out" of most poster's Second Test projected teams. Imagine that view has been somewhat revised after the heroics of Saturday.

So : question one : Is he - as Ed Smith (and Nasser Hussain and Shane Warne in post match euphoria comments) insist , now deemed an automatic essential selection in any England team irrespective of any fluctuations in form ? Even dry runs lasting eight or nine Test Matches ?

And question two : If the prospect of the occasional brilliant innings like yesterday's effort does make him undroppable ; does that mean he should move in and out of the keeper's position depending on conditions - notwithstanding the effect this has on the other players who have to move around to suit ? Or does he keep on keeping regardless of apparent imperfections , especially standing up to spin?

And if you detect a certain cynicism in my phrasing of the above : yes I put my hand up to admit I find Jos a player who leaves me considerably conflicted.

The innings he played yesterday was terrific. (So was that of Woakes , of course. But I doubt that anyone will declare that Chris must now be selected for any England Test , in any conditions , regardless of his bowling results , because he has the potential to play another such innings) OK not a perfect analogy...but you get my drift.

I have to agree that Buttler has earned the right to a spot for the rest of this series. But my problem is that he either has to remain as keeper (I think he will ,for now) despite some doubts over whether this is the best option for the team ; or occupy the number six batting spot - recognising that this means other players are going to be batting out of their best positions.

If he plays like this every other week I guess the latter option is acceptable. But if he continues to average thirty and turns it on only every two years I am not sure it is worth designing the whole batting order around him.

No more Tests after these couple until after Christmas so answers not essential just yet. But probably needs considering at some point. What do the rest of you think ?

alfie wrote:I have to agree that Buttler has earned the right to a spot for the rest of this series. But my problem is that he either has to remain as keeper (I think he will ,for now) despite some doubts over whether this is the best option for the team ; or occupy the number six batting spot - recognising that this means other players are going to be batting out of their best positions.

Does the absence of Stokes for 2 matches change things?

It opens the possibility of putting in a specialist top order bat, leaving Buttler at 6, proper keeper at 7 and then get the bowling selection right, knowing that they aren't chasing the series for once

They won't, of course (and perhaps they shouldn't), they'll pick Crawley at 3, leave Buttler with the gloves and pick 5 bowlers again

and perhaps they should

Hardly died in the wool evidence but I put four polls on Twitter BEFORE Buttler's big performance. Of the 120 people who voted 70 said he would be in the team this time next year. I did the same thing for Anderson, Bess and whether Root would be captain this time next year. The Buttler yes vote was the one that had the largest amount of individual votes behind it if any of them.

I would have left him out regardless of the fifty because the evidence of many games doesn't offset the impression of one Test. A Test average of 31 is what you'd expect of a keeper/batter, not a batter/keeper. So bring a better keeper in. Maybe Stokes being away means he could take a batting place, but I'd rather find a number three and move everyone down one.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to drop him given someone would have to be quarantined to join the squad. But anyway, we know JB2 will be playing until the end of the series because no one else has been called up.

If he wasn't dropped after the South Africa series he certainly isn't going to be dropped now. I do think we need a better keeper, particularly standing up.

especially standing up

Ben foakes should be englands test keeper batsman...its a no brainer...

People always seem to mistake results as validating a method or approach. It doesn't shock me in the slightest that many people will see Buttler scored crucial runs in a match winning effort for the ages, and will draw conclusions that when the chips are down, hes the sort of player capable of brilliance. The opposite though is true, if you want to replicate success over a long term exposure, then method and approach matter more than any results ever will. What is more concerning with Buttler is, what is the method?

I love playing poker. If someone I play against beats me over and over again with crap starting hands they bet heavy on, only to keep catching outs on the turn of the cards, then that makes them a very lucky player, but not a good one. The result doesn't matter much, you keep playing that same method over and over again, the probabilities eventually get you.

Buttler is the cricket equivalent of a prat that goes all in with 2/7 off suit..... doesn't mean sometimes when his lucks in he wont win, probability dictates he will occasionally do that. But he will almost certainly lose a lot, lot more than he wins. He has the capability to score quickly with high risk shots, and he needs luck to make useful scores to do that. Continuing picking him is like admitting you are happy to roll a dice, and a player only be useful every time it comes up 6.

Well I say useful... hed not have had to come into bat if he hadn't shelled so many runs with his iron gloves. If the peak of Buttlers career in test cricket is a match where he scored 25 runs less than he dropped, then it pretty much says it all.

He is just a poor keeper and a pretty poor batsman.

andy wrote:Ben foakes should be englands test keeper batsman...its a no brainer...

Problem is, Ed Smith has literally no brain

sussexpob wrote:
He is just a poor keeper and a pretty poor batsman.

pretty poor test match batsman

he's an excellent white ball bat

poor keeper in any format

That goes without saying. I doubt his ODI place is in debate

it might be if he carries his test form and confidence into his next ODI/T20I

that worries me more tbh

It's typical of England (or an indicator of Mr Ed's hubris) that we can decide to have 2 separate squads for the summer, and then put one of the best white ball players in the world, with a very modest test record, in the test squad

Durhamfootman wrote:it might be if he carries his test form and confidence into his next ODI/T20I

that worries me more tbh

It's typical of England (or an indicator of Mr Ed's hubris) that we can decide to have 2 separate squads for the summer, and then put one of the best white ball players in the world, with a very modest test record, in the test squad

Clearly (in Mr Ed's view) it was merely a matter of which squad had Bairstow keeping and which Buttler. Otherwise Foakes might do a proper job of keeping and then where would we be?

The Professor wrote:Hardly died in the wool evidence but I put four polls on Twitter BEFORE Buttler's big performance. Of the 120 people who voted 70 said he would be in the team this time next year. I did the same thing for Anderson, Bess and whether Root would be captain this time next year. The Buttler yes vote was the one that had the largest amount of individual votes behind it if any of them.

Gonna run these same polls tonight and see what comes up.

As a reminder:

59.5% said Root would not be captain this time next Summer with 64.9% and 56.5% saying Anderson and Bess respectively would not make the team.

58.3% though Buttler would be in the team.