Spot Fixing?

[SaintPowelly]

I mentioned the drugs to show that Asif didnt have a spotless record.

I dont have any sympathy for Amir..naivity isn't an excuse.. I got taught at the age of 6 or 7 what the wrongs and rights of sport are.

[keshto]

Well SP all I can say is good for you, but you should be harder on yourself and easier on others.

Not everyone has the same childhood, not saying it's an excuse by the way, just saying you can't compare yourself to others.

[SaintPowelly]

doesn't everyone get taught at a young age to compete fairly and within the rules. ( to an extent )

every bowler has appealed an LBW that they know isn't hitting, every football has appealed for a foul when they have barely been touched..its part of the game and up to the referee/umpire to decide.

Betting against your own side, deliberatly losing a game and making money from it are completly different

[keshto]

I am not sure they were betting against their own side but on just bowling a few no balls or something like that (if I understood correctly).

Apparently Amir was educated in a small village so the necessities might not be the same as yours, you'd be surprised by how different the education in small villages in Asia and how naive villagers are.

[SaintPowelly]

I am not sure they were betting against their own side but on just bowling a few no balls or something like that (if I understood correctly).

Apparently Amir was educated in a small village so the necessities might not be the same as yours, you'd be surprised by how different the education in small villages in Asia and how naive villagers are.

but surely its obvious that if someone approaches you and offers you a lump sum of money to bowl a few no-balls that it is wrong.

And reports are that Pakistan deliberatly lost the Sydney test.. when the Aussies were 8 down in the second innings with a small lead , they were 40-1 to win the game.. Pakistan set defensive fields, dropped Hussey 4 times and didnt bowl full and/or straight at Siddle and let the Aussies build and lead before Pakistan collapsed. if this is true then they have fixed a match

[keshto]

If it's true yes.

Again SP I am not saying it is not wrong, but imagine yourself in the Pakistan team where there are power struggles, were everyone has to take sides against others where senior players are behaving like twats and introducing young impressionable players to bookmakers... Reassuring him tellling him it was the easiest thing in the world and besides it was to throw down this guy's captaincy and making a few bucks from it! All in a good day's work!

You could say excuses excuses, and I would agree with you. He should not have taken part in any of it, nor should have Asif or the others. Just saying that you can't take yourself as an example as everyone has different life experiences and also opportunities.

I on a personal note, find a life ban a real harsh punishment. Especially for one who is starting his career. It is a more heavy ban on Amir than it is on Butt or Asif.

[SaintPowelly]

If it's true yes.

Again SP I am not saying it is not wrong, but imagine yourself in the Pakistan team where there are power struggles, were everyone has to take sides against others where senior players are behaving like twats and introducing young impressionable players to bookmakers... Reassuring him tellling him it was the easiest thing in the world and besides it was to throw down this guy's captaincy and making a few bucks from it! All in a good day's work!

You could say excuses excuses, and I would agree with you. He should not have taken part in any of it, nor should have Asif or the others. Just saying that you can't take yourself as an example as everyone has different life experiences and also opportunities.

I on a personal note, find a life ban a real harsh punishment. Especially for one who is starting his career. It is a more heavy ban on Amir than it is on Butt or Asif.

I can see your point, but when Bangladesh were over here Tamim Iqbal said to the press that he had been approached twice and twice reported it to the police, surely its as tough for a Bangladeshi as it is a Pakistani.

of course the Pakistan team don't have the IPL as an option to make serious money..but Wasim Akram, Imran Khan etc. never had that option either and they turned out ok

[keshto]

SP Bangladesh side does not have IPL either(maybe Mortaza but I think that's all), but more importantly, BD don't have power struggles like the Pakistan seem to have. The climate is saner than the Pakistan team.

You know they say that sending juvenile delinquants into prison makes them turn out worse than before they went in? Group influence can be tough to fight off, and you have to have a strong will power to not be influenced. Group pressures can be amazing.

[SaintPowelly]

If it can be proved that Amir was bullied into it, then there might be a may he can still play. I think that is what happened with Herschaelle Gibbs - Hansie Cronjie admitted bullying Gibbs into it.

But none of us know Amir personally, for all we know he might enjoy it.

[meninblue]

ICC may want proof but i think the followers are now sure that most of the matches are fixed. Its a big joke that this series has not yet been called off. Cricket has been sold to the bookies except some players.

IMO the idea of getting Dubai into cricket is one of the worst step by ICC.

[sussexpob]

Don't really see what the drug charges have to do with that. It's not like he took performance enhancing drugs.

He did. He was charge twice with having nandrolone in his system, and once in Dubai with possession of a recreational opiate, probably as a painkiller. He was by in large let off because the PCB accepted the fact that the had innocently taken what a doctor had prescribed him, and doctors in that part of the world are more likely to naively prescribe things on the banned substances list.

The second time he served a ban in the IPL, I think for 12months! And he was incarcerated and unable to play in Dubai ODI's after his possession charge... I think he spent 21 days or something in prison there, and they eventually decided to release him(Which in itself opens a Muslim bias of the application of their laws, because they have given 10 year sentences for 0.001 gram Weed dust to British tourists!).

So yeah, he does have form. The 3 time it happened, the excuse of naivity started to wear thin! I agree with Saint Powelly, I dont believe for a second those players involved didnt know what they were doing was wrong, especially when gambling is against their religion and the laws of their country.

[keshto]

Although most crimes are against religions Sussex, so that's not really an argument is it?

Ok for Asif!

[GordoninPortsmouth]

Does this mean Amir and Asif will be banned for life?

Sad really, isn't it?

No way! Not for one minute.

I have steered clear of this because for me the whole thing is incredibly sad for cricket.

However I have no doubt that nothing serious will happen to any Pak player involved in this and no way will the ICC take tough and decisive action in dealing with this. Why? Because dealing with this issue is too hard for cricket, will open up such a can of worms with all manner of cultural clash issues coming to the surface that in itself would destroy the game as we know it.

The ICC has singularly failed to deal decisively with throwing, ball tampering, player dissent and performance drug taking. Why would anyone expect them to deal with match fixing?

Expect that in 6 months time nothing will have happened. The likes of Asif, Aamir and Akmal will still be plying their trade, Pak's cricket will still be highly mecurial and "inconsistent", and the rest of us will just carry on pretending that everything is totally above board. To do anything else is simply too hard for cricket to contemplate.

[sussexpob]

Although most crimes are against religions Sussex, so that's not really an argument is it?

Ok for Asif!

In response to the following......

doesn't everyone get taught at a young age to compete fairly and within the rules. ( to an extent )

Apparently Amir was educated in a small village so the necessities might not be the same as yours, you'd be surprised by how different the education in small villages in Asia and how naive villagers are.

Im saying if he was brought up to be a muslim, and Im under the impression on what is said with the Pakistan team, by Lawson and Woolmer as coaches previously, the team place their faith as a very important aspect of their cricketing preperations....

Therefore you expect that Amir has been exposed to a teaching of what is right and wrong.... and like I said, Gambling is against his religion, he would have been taught that from a young age. So I dont buy this naivity argument really

[sussexpob]

Does this mean Amir and Asif will be banned for life?

Sad really, isn't it?

No way! Not for one minute.

I have steered clear of this because for me the whole thing is incredibly sad for cricket.

However I have no doubt that nothing serious will happen to any Pak player involved in this and no way will the ICC take tough and decisive action in dealing with this. Why? Because dealing with this issue is too hard for cricket, will open up such a can of worms with all manner of cultural clash issues coming to the surface that in itself would destroy the game as we know it.

The ICC has singularly failed to deal decisively with throwing, ball tampering, player dissent and performance drug taking. Why would anyone expect them to deal with match fixing?

Expect that in 6 months time nothing will have happened. The likes of Asif, Aamir and Akmal will still be plying their trade, Pak's cricket will still be highly mecurial and "inconsistent", and the rest of us will just carry on pretending that everything is totally above board. To do anything else is simply too hard for cricket to contemplate.

How much is the ICC, and how much is the cricketing board in question? I tend to remember that it was the PCB that let off Asif and Shioab, and that the International drugs agencies/ICC couldnt hold up the original punishment because the testing was conducted internally, and not as part of an ICC post/pre game random test?

Im not sure again whether it would be the ICC who would hand out the bands, because it was Justice Quuaim?(ive spelt that wrong I know) in the Pakistani courts investigation that did dish out life time bans post cronje.... maybe the same will be done internally if the ICC refused to get their own hands dirty