The enigma that is Chris Gayle

[ChrisQ]

Former Jamaica and WI fast bowler Darren Powell has announced his retirement, and took the opportunity to slam Gibson and the WICB, coming down strongly on the side of Gayle....

“Based on what I read about coach Ottis Gibson saying about Gayle not being tactically aware and is not a natural leader, there is no reason to target Gayle. For West Indies cricket to move forward, it is not about focusing on Gayle or the senior players on the team. When Gibson took the job as coach, I believed that he was the right person for it. But right now his mind seems to be elsewhere and he is not focusing on what should matter… the development of the cricket from the lower levels. Gibson’s mind seems to be too much on the senior players. We need for him to get the senior players to perform, yes, but at the same time we need to see changes made in the development of players from the youth level. We all want West Indies cricket to move forward, but we can’t spend so much time now focusing on Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, or the Bravos. We need to look from the Under-15 level and structure the game in such a way that when these same players get to 22-years-old they can match the other players on other international teams of the same age. We’re having guys coming up for the West Indies and playing two or three games and getting dropped. When you look at some of the guys who played in the World Cup, like Andre Russell for example, if he were a weak individual, he would not have played another game, because he performed well and got dropped for someone who is there just to spin a toss,” Powell said.


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Da ... z1K6EHkJpg

Powell. The same Powell who although super fit, probably couldn't take a wicket even if the batsmen he was bowling to was attempting to get out and fix the match. Fount of wisdom that one.

What has someone's wicket taking ability gotta do with his ability to speak sense

Let's put it this way - he didn't have enough sense to see what his problems were in bowling (which was his job!) so why should I expect him to be speaking sensibly when discussing his job environment? I admire him for his devotion to fitness (something which Gayle doesn't seem to have if the KLAS interview is anything to go by), but it was painful to watch him make the same mistakes over and over again when tomes had by then been written about his bowling. He was predictably unpredictable. He just couldn't string enough decent deliveries together to really play well, not for West Indies and not for Hants. I've long believed that the only reason he kept getting selected was because he almost never got injured so he was a safe card to make up the bowling overs, it certainly wasn't because he was the bowling equivalent of Lara and could look at his mistakes and make the corrections where needed and so come back as a better player. When Powell bowled everybody, and I mean everybody from the fans down to the opposition batsmen just knew it meant easy runs (and at times they wouldn't even have to move a muscle because he would go for wides). You cannot be in the same job for years and be repeating the same mistakes and then seriously consider yourself to be taken seriously when criticizing your co-workers/employers.

Note that other WI bowlers have overcome their problems - Roach had a notorious no-ball problem which has now seriously diminished. Roach had the sense to realize his mistakes and correct them. Could never say the same for Powell.

[ChrisQ]

Chris, Do you just have a genuine hatred for Chris Gayle ?? It sounds like you have an axe to grind with him. ( much like me with Afridi )

Hatred? No. I don't hate anybody. Am I frustrated with Gayle? Of course. Even though Gayle doesn't seem to recall it, I well recall seeing him having issues with fitness. Some issues were unavoidable - heart condition, hernia. But his hamstring plagued him for a long time, and obviously needed strength training if there wasn't some underlying incurable problem. Yet series after series he almost never failed to pull up with a hamstring injury or to get out because he didn't want to run and exercise/pressure his hamstring. Then the Stanford faux-revolution came along with oodles of cash and all of sudden he took training seriously and now his hamstring problem has decreased. What vexes me is that I would pay money to go to the ground to watch this joker not take himself or his fitness seriously and now he is in all seriousness suggesting that "man to man" the West Indies team is just as fit as the Australian team or Indian team. I can only recall one time though when I saw Ponting having to leave the field with an injury and that was after a Roach delivery caught him full in the stomach. Even then I remember that there some bruhaha over it from the Aussie coach who thought Ponting should have stayed (and even Ponting himself tried to stay).

[amitb]

Former Jamaica and WI fast bowler Darren Powell has announced his retirement, and took the opportunity to slam Gibson and the WICB, coming down strongly on the side of Gayle....

“Based on what I read about coach Ottis Gibson saying about Gayle not being tactically aware and is not a natural leader, there is no reason to target Gayle. For West Indies cricket to move forward, it is not about focusing on Gayle or the senior players on the team. When Gibson took the job as coach, I believed that he was the right person for it. But right now his mind seems to be elsewhere and he is not focusing on what should matter… the development of the cricket from the lower levels. Gibson’s mind seems to be too much on the senior players. We need for him to get the senior players to perform, yes, but at the same time we need to see changes made in the development of players from the youth level. We all want West Indies cricket to move forward, but we can’t spend so much time now focusing on Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, or the Bravos. We need to look from the Under-15 level and structure the game in such a way that when these same players get to 22-years-old they can match the other players on other international teams of the same age. We’re having guys coming up for the West Indies and playing two or three games and getting dropped. When you look at some of the guys who played in the World Cup, like Andre Russell for example, if he were a weak individual, he would not have played another game, because he performed well and got dropped for someone who is there just to spin a toss,” Powell said.


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Da ... z1K6EHkJpg

Powell. The same Powell who although super fit, probably couldn't take a wicket even if the batsmen he was bowling to was attempting to get out and fix the match. Fount of wisdom that one.

What has someone's wicket taking ability gotta do with his ability to speak sense

Let's put it this way - he didn't have enough sense to see what his problems were in bowling (which was his job!) so why should I expect him to be speaking sensibly when discussing his job environment? I admire him for his devotion to fitness (something which Gayle doesn't seem to have if the KLAS interview is anything to go by), but it was painful to watch him make the same mistakes over and over again when tomes had by then been written about his bowling. He was predictably unpredictable. He just couldn't string enough decent deliveries together to really play well, not for West Indies and not for Hants. I've long believed that the only reason he kept getting selected was because he almost never got injured so he was a safe card to make up the bowling overs, it certainly wasn't because he was the bowling equivalent of Lara and could look at his mistakes and make the corrections where needed and so come back as a better player. When Powell bowled everybody, and I mean everybody from the fans down to the opposition batsmen just knew it meant easy runs (and at times they wouldn't even have to move a muscle because he would go for wides). You cannot be in the same job for years and be repeating the same mistakes and then seriously consider yourself to be taken seriously when criticizing your co-workers/employers.

Note that other WI bowlers have overcome their problems - Roach had a notorious no-ball problem which has now seriously diminished. Roach had the sense to realize his mistakes and correct them. Could never say the same for Powell.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges

[mikesiva]

Thanks to lbw for the extensive quotes he provided on Gayle's quotes from KLAS-FM....

Here's the cricinfo story on Gayle's interview....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/westindies/ ... 12062.html

"A group of players were selected for a training camp in Barbados, and I never got a call, nobody spoke to me, and I decided to leave it alone," Gayle told KLAS Sports, a radio station in Jamaica. "I continued my training programme, and I came to find out via the media that a Twenty20 squad was announced, and a one-day international squad was announced, and I was stunned when I saw a big headline in the newspapers, 'Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul dropped'." Gayle said no one from the WICB had contacted him before the squads had been named. "The only communication I have had with anyone connected with the WICB was when I sent a text message to (team physio) CJ Clark, and gave him an update about how I was doing," he said. "I told him I was feeling good, the progress I was making; I was running, I was in the gym, and working. His only response was that he would send a fitness programme, which I did not receive until the IPL offer had presented itself."

I believe CQ has some good points to make about Gayle's lack of professionalism at various points in his career. However, it seems to me that the WICB has been just as unprofessional, if not worse, in its treatment of Gayle.

With regards to Gayle's ability as an opening batsman, which of the many opening batsmen tried by the WI selectors have a better record than Gayle in the Test arena? It now seems clear that Gayle will miss the Pakistan series, and the truth is that the WIndies team will be weaker without him to open the batting....

[ChrisQ]

Former Jamaica and WI fast bowler Darren Powell has announced his retirement, and took the opportunity to slam Gibson and the WICB, coming down strongly on the side of Gayle....

“Based on what I read about coach Ottis Gibson saying about Gayle not being tactically aware and is not a natural leader, there is no reason to target Gayle. For West Indies cricket to move forward, it is not about focusing on Gayle or the senior players on the team. When Gibson took the job as coach, I believed that he was the right person for it. But right now his mind seems to be elsewhere and he is not focusing on what should matter… the development of the cricket from the lower levels. Gibson’s mind seems to be too much on the senior players. We need for him to get the senior players to perform, yes, but at the same time we need to see changes made in the development of players from the youth level. We all want West Indies cricket to move forward, but we can’t spend so much time now focusing on Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, or the Bravos. We need to look from the Under-15 level and structure the game in such a way that when these same players get to 22-years-old they can match the other players on other international teams of the same age. We’re having guys coming up for the West Indies and playing two or three games and getting dropped. When you look at some of the guys who played in the World Cup, like Andre Russell for example, if he were a weak individual, he would not have played another game, because he performed well and got dropped for someone who is there just to spin a toss,” Powell said.


Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Da ... z1K6EHkJpg

Powell. The same Powell who although super fit, probably couldn't take a wicket even if the batsmen he was bowling to was attempting to get out and fix the match. Fount of wisdom that one.

What has someone's wicket taking ability gotta do with his ability to speak sense

Let's put it this way - he didn't have enough sense to see what his problems were in bowling (which was his job!) so why should I expect him to be speaking sensibly when discussing his job environment? I admire him for his devotion to fitness (something which Gayle doesn't seem to have if the KLAS interview is anything to go by), but it was painful to watch him make the same mistakes over and over again when tomes had by then been written about his bowling. He was predictably unpredictable. He just couldn't string enough decent deliveries together to really play well, not for West Indies and not for Hants. I've long believed that the only reason he kept getting selected was because he almost never got injured so he was a safe card to make up the bowling overs, it certainly wasn't because he was the bowling equivalent of Lara and could look at his mistakes and make the corrections where needed and so come back as a better player. When Powell bowled everybody, and I mean everybody from the fans down to the opposition batsmen just knew it meant easy runs (and at times they wouldn't even have to move a muscle because he would go for wides). You cannot be in the same job for years and be repeating the same mistakes and then seriously consider yourself to be taken seriously when criticizing your co-workers/employers.

Note that other WI bowlers have overcome their problems - Roach had a notorious no-ball problem which has now seriously diminished. Roach had the sense to realize his mistakes and correct them. Could never say the same for Powell.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges

Not really. In this case the fact that apples and oranges are both fruit comes in handy because they have certain characteristics in common (such as under-ripe apples being unappetizing just like under-ripe oranges and Powell's comments whether they be of the apple variety or orange variety are green, green, green).

Take a look at what Mr. Powell said:

Based on what I read about coach Ottis Gibson saying about Gayle not being tactically aware and is not a natural leader, there is no reason to target Gayle.

Obviously Powell knows the real deal having played with Gayle as skipper when often times even the comms were wondering why WI were letting the foot off the gas when they had a team in trouble. Powell in particular often functioned as a "get of jail" free card.

For West Indies cricket to move forward, it is not about focusing on Gayle or the senior players on the team. When Gibson took the job as coach, I believed that he was the right person for it. But right now his mind seems to be elsewhere and he is not focusing on what should matter… the development of the cricket from the lower levels.

This nugget is a particular gem of genius shining through. Powell is saying that the coach of the senior West Indies team must not bother with the senior West Indian players but must now usurp the roles of the various age group coaches who are already being paid and tasked with developing cricket at the lower levels.

Gibson’s mind seems to be too much on the senior players.

No kidding. Could it be because he, like his predecessors, was hired as the coach for the seniors? In what other setup anywhere in the cricketing world is the coach of the senior team going to be focusing on age group teams? I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen in England, South Africa, India, Pakistan or Australia so what on earth is Powell talking about? Unless he is implying that the seniors are a lost cause and that the coach should really be focusing on finding their replacements from amongst the developing players.

We need for him to get the senior players to perform, yes, but at the same time we need to see changes made in the development of players from the youth level.

Because doing other people's jobs that you are not paid for is par for the course apparently in Powell's world. In case Powell hadn't notice by the way the West Indies U-19 team is off in Dubai and the West Indies A team play a lot of matches recently and from the A team tours players such as Darren Bravo, Andre Russell and (most shockingly) Devon Smith made their way into (or back into) the senior team on the back of good performances. Of course, it is not the job of any coach of a senior team to be organizing U-19 tours and A-team tours since that is the job of the board.

We all want West Indies cricket to move forward, but we can’t spend so much time now focusing on Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, or the Bravos. We need to look from the Under-15 level and structure the game in such a way that when these same players get to 22-years-old they can match the other players on other international teams of the same age.

Once again Powell is displaying his nous as he suggests that a coach tasked with coaching the senior team must now look at players from the U-15 level and structure the game in such a way that 7 or so years later they can be international quality. Nice idea, except he seems to forget that structuring the game from the U-15 level upwards is not one of the powers of a senior team coach. Sure the coach can suggest a new structure which he feels might help developing players, but no coach (Dyson, Gibson, Kanhai, etc) could actually structure the game for the U-15s and U-19s anymore than Powell can.

We’re having guys coming up for the West Indies and playing two or three games and getting dropped.

Like who? I recall fellas like Baker being dropped, but I haven't seen a single fan shed a tear over Baker being dropped. Most complained that he was too much like Darren Powell in his bowling. Baker played more than just 2 or 3 games as well Darren Bravo hasn't been dropped. The only reason Barath has not featured more often has been injuries (which of course now flies in the face of Gayle's claim that the WI team and Aussie and Indian teams are just as fit on a man for man basis). Rampaul and Roach haven't been dropped. Deonarine had more than a few games. Dowlin too, but then wasn't Dowlin even dropped by the Guyana team? I know he certainly couldn't be talking about Sarwan who has played more than 100 matches.

The ironic thing about this statement is that chronic non-performers like himself would have actually encouraged the very situation he is complaining about. Since Powell almost always played in the final XI it meant that if you were going to try out some other players they would all have to compete for just the sole remaining bowling spot once Taylor and Edwards were in the squad.

When you look at some of the guys who played in the World Cup, like Andre Russell for example, if he were a weak individual, he would not have played another game, because he performed well and got dropped for someone who is there just to spin a toss

This is the real gem. He laments over Russell (note that Russell was picked for the T20 squad and this should have been known to Powell as it happened before he made these comments) and then bashes Sammy as being a non-performer when Powell himself wasn't even there to perform the task of calling the toss. Powell's role more often than not was to help the other team win. Powell seems so blind to his own shortcomings that he fails to see the painful irony in his pot calling the kettle black moment. As I said, he didn't have the sense to recognize his bowling problems and doesn't have the sense to speak with common sense on the wider aspect of cricket.

[ChrisQ]

I believe CQ has some good points to make about Gayle's lack of professionalism at various points in his career. However, it seems to me that the WICB has been just as unprofessional, if not worse, in its treatment of Gayle.

With regards to Gayle's ability as an opening batsman, which of the many opening batsmen tried by the WI selectors have a better record than Gayle in the Test arena?

Which other opener has been given 100+ matches on the trot? We don't know because apart from Gayle none ever were apart from Chanderpaul and Chanderpaul wasn't performing the role of an opener per se but just being good batsmen (and his record still speaks for itself). Chanderpaul moved down the order to suit his style of batting, Gayle hung around at the top because he doesn't seem to know anything else.

The various other opening batsmen can't have a better record than Gayle simply because Gayle has been there long enough to accumulate such a record. If you play long enough you will break some record.

It now seems clear that Gayle will miss the Pakistan series, and the truth is that the WIndies team will be weaker without him to open the batting....

Well it hasn't been like WI have been super-duper with him recently anyway. I've little doubt that even if they played Gayle, Sarwan and Chanders and then shot Sammy and buried him out back that WI would probably lose against Pakistan anyway. For a while Gayle looked like he was beginning to apply himself and I recall the comms saying as much in some of the home series (for ODIs and tests) but that seemed to be temporary and now he has reverted to Gayle 1.0 with the inconsistency. I remember in the Sri Lanka series I felt bad for Gayle because so many were saying (and even the newspaper cartoons were saying) that once he scored that triple century he wouldn't make any more score of note for the rest of the series. I wanted to believe that those comments were wrong and mischievous only for Gayle to prove them right and show me that placing faith in him having a consistent series is about as wise as betting my house on a Madoff scheme.

Besides it isn't like Gayle wanted to play in the Pakistan series anyway (despite contrary statements allegedly made in this same interview). Gayle apparently said and lbw transcribed it: "The CEO then called asking what I wanted to do pertaining to IPL. I said 'I'd love to play full IPL.' ". He could never have played "full IPL" and played in the (Future Tours Programme) series with Pakistan at the same time unless Gayle has a clone. And if he didn't want to play in the Pakistan series, with how much purpose would he have batted anyway?

[mikesiva]

Don't get me wrong - I acknowledge that Gayle has attitudinal issues, that have probably prevented him from achieving more than he did. But he did play 91 Tests, and averages over 41, which is pretty good, for a modern-day West Indies batsman....

But I don't accept your hypothesis that he accumulated those runs just by the stint of playing a large number of matches. The WI selectors have tried a lot of opening partners for Gayle, giving some of them a long run, and they have all looked pale in comparison to Gayle's okayish returns.

Let's disregard the players who've now retired, such as Sherwin Campbell, Adrian Griffith, and Stuart Williams, and let's not consider those former partners who can no longer make their own regional teams, such as Leon Garrick, Sieunarine Chattergoon and Travis Dowlin. Gayle has had five opening partners who still play regional cricket:

1) Darren Ganga - 48 Tests, ave 25
2) Wavell Hinds - 45 Tests, ave 33
3) Devon Smith - 32 Tests, ave 25
4) Adrian Barath - four Tests, ave 28
5) Dale Richards - three Tests, ave 21

Surely, you're not saying that we give Ganga a chance to match Gayle's 91 Tests, under the conviction that he must end up averaging 41 when he reaches that landmark....

And it's not like the Caribbean regional four-day competition is awash with talented young opening batsmen, hammering on the door, being kept out by Gayle, who's selfishly been guarding his position in the team. If the WI selectors had a ready-made replacement for Gayle, they would've dispensed with him without a second thought.

Can you name any other opening batsmen who've done well at the just-concluded regional four-day tournament, and as a result deserve a crack at the Tests against Pakistan?

That said, it's obvious that Gayle won't be playing against Pakistan, and this will be an opportunity for two openers to step up and try to claim their place at the top of the order. So far, it looks like it will be a partnership between Devon Smith and Adrian Barath, but given that they average in the 20s in Tests, this opening partnership will be weaker than the one we saw in Sri Lanka last year....

[vindalf]

And it's not like the Caribbean regional four-day competition is awash with talented young opening batsmen, hammering on the door, being kept out by Gayle, who's selfishly been guarding his position in the team.

Mike ... this is possibly off-topic but is there a promising middle order batsman who could be given a go at the top of the order? Darren Bravo perhaps? Just a thought. I'll freely admit that I haven't seen much of any of the young West Indian batsmen.

India struggled mightily for 10 years and more to find a decent test opener. That was till someone decided to give Sehwag a chance at the top. There are other examples, I'm sure.

[keshto]

I do think CQ makes some good points though. We will never really know the full side of the story, everyone will have his version.

I think both parties are to blame in my opinion.

[SaintPowelly]

What ever happened to Xavier Marshall ??

[mikesiva]

What ever happened to Xavier Marshall ??

He's deteriorated to the point where he can't even make the Jamaica side....

But Jamaica's openers this season - Danza Hyatt and Simon Jackson - both failed in the four-day domestic game this season, so if the X-man puts his head down and works at his game, he could revive his career as an opener. With what's happening to Gayle, there's a clear vacancy in that department.

vindalf, I'm not sure about promoting a middle-order batsman to open. I don't think that Darren Bravo, Shiv Chanderpaul, Ronnie Sarwan or Brendan Nash have a tight enough technique to open the batting, and if they don't do it for their regional teams, they probably wouldn't cope well opening the batting against the likes of Steyn, et al.

Here are the top runscorers in the recent four-day domestic competition....

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3881&start=300

In terms of openers, the familiar names of Wavell Hinds and Darren Ganga are there, even though they've batted at three or four this season. But better than that, there are three other possible prospects for the opening slots, aside from Barath and Smith - Andre Fletcher, Lendl Simmons and Kraigg Brathwaite.

Are they ready yet for the step up? Maybe Simmons and Fletcher should be tried out in the ODIs first, and maybe Brathwaite needs one more season in FC cricket first. We don't want to rush Brathwaite into Test cricket too soon, and ruin his career, the way Marshall's career was ruined by that premature step up....

[ddb]

I do think CQ makes some good points though. We will never really know the full side of the story, everyone will have his version.

I think both parties are to blame in my opinion.

This.

[ChrisQ]

Don't get me wrong - I acknowledge that Gayle has attitudinal issues, that have probably prevented him from achieving more than he did. But he did play 91 Tests, and averages over 41, which is pretty good, for a modern-day West Indies batsman....

And that's the problem. We accept what is now considered "average" in the top nations as "pretty good for a modern-day WI batsman". So we don't hold them to a higher standard and let them get away with slacking off.

Gayle's tests aren't the real problem though, his inconsistency seems to show up less there (hence an over 40 average). But having 19 ODI hundreds with 16 of them against the other full members but an average just over 39 is not right.

If you look at the players with the most hundreds: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/conten ... 82935.html Gayle is bracketed by people who have less hundreds than he does or more hundreds than he does and they almost all have higher averages save two people: Jayasuriya and Herschelle Gibbs. Jayasuriya retired in 2009 after falling off in terms of performance from the last few years. Gibbs had an up (six 6s) and down (drinking rehabilitation, the Hansjie Cronje saga) career and was retired in mid-2010 if I'm not mistaken.

Rather than sticking out like those two, Gayle could have ended up being like the others in that list (nice average, more hundreds than ducks) if the application he was showing from 2007-2009/10 had stuck.

But I don't accept your hypothesis that he accumulated those runs just by the stint of playing a large number of matches.

But he must have, how else do you accumulate runs if not in matches?

The WI selectors have tried a lot of opening partners for Gayle, giving some of them a long run, and they have all looked pale in comparison to Gayle's okayish returns.

Let's disregard the players who've now retired, such as Sherwin Campbell, Adrian Griffith, and Stuart Williams, and let's not consider those former partners who can no longer make their own regional teams, such as Leon Garrick, Sieunarine Chattergoon and Travis Dowlin. Gayle has had five opening partners who still play regional cricket:

1) Darren Ganga - 48 Tests, ave 25
2) Wavell Hinds - 45 Tests, ave 33
3) Devon Smith - 32 Tests, ave 25
4) Adrian Barath - four Tests, ave 28
5) Dale Richards - three Tests, ave 21

After 47 tests matches Gayle's average was about 38 or 38.5. They could have given Wavell Hinds and Dale Richards (when he recovered from injury) a longer run at least.

Here's something interesting though - For ODIs Gayle took 30 matches before scoring his first century. Devon Smith only featured in 7 matches (and only batted in 6) between 2003 and 2004 before being dropped for 3 years from the ODI team. He then gets picked for 19 matches again between 2007 and 2008 before being dropped for a year again. He then gets picked for 6 matches for 2009 before being dropped again for 2 years. So whilst Gayle had 30 more or less continuous matches and has played in every single year between 1999 and 2010, Devon Smith never played between 2004 and 2007, 2008-09 and 2009-2011. They didn't have to pick Devon for the test team, but how does it make sense to give one guy 30 matches to get 100 but another guy gets dropped for extended periods 3 times before playing 32 matches? Perhaps if Gayle had been dropped for over a year from ODIs during that 30 match period he might have taken the time to reassess himself and try to attain his real potential which almost everybody who watches him knows could be great. Perhaps if they dropped him from the ODI squad and kept him on the test squad it might have helped hone his patience so that instead of "wham, bam, thank you maam" he would take more time to build an innings.

Gayle has had better job security than most workers in essential industries.

And it's not like the Caribbean regional four-day competition is awash with talented young opening batsmen, hammering on the door, being kept out by Gayle, who's selfishly been guarding his position in the team. If the WI selectors had a ready-made replacement for Gayle, they would've dispensed with him without a second thought.

You sure about that?

Can you name any other opening batsmen who've done well at the just-concluded regional four-day tournament, and as a result deserve a crack at the Tests against Pakistan?

Well out of the batsmen in general Marlon Samuels, Wavell Hinds, Darren Ganga and Brendan Nash did well. None are openers for their team though but that hasn't stopped others from becoming openers. Lendl Simmons and Kraigg Brathwaite are openers though and they both had a pretty good season.

Better yet since I've mainly been talking about ODI cricket whilst you focused on test cricket, I'll give examples of players who have opened in the recent one-day tournament: Omar Phillips, Perkins, Barath, Dwayne Bravo, Chris Gayle, Miles Bascombe, Devon Smith, Xavier Marshall, J. Charles, J. Liburd, Kraigg Brathwaite, Chris Barnwell, Richard Nixon Ramdeen, Chandrika, Kieran Powell, Simmons, Fudadin, Jason Haynes, Dale Richard, M. Hodge, Martin Nurse and Chesney Hughes.

Out of that lot we find some interesting statistics:

- Johnson Charles (a 22 year old) had nearly identical figures to Gayle; 4 matches, 4 innings, 152 runs (Gayle got 153), high score of 72...but Charles' average is 38 from the tournament whilst Gayle's was 51, but then Gayle had one not-out innings and Charles did not.

- Devon Smith had 4 matches with 2 not-out innings and averaged 70.

- Xavier Marshall played 4 matches and averaged 26-27. Why they haven't selected someone else to be a steady opener is beyond me and must certainly be one of the reasons why there haven't been that many new openers for WI as the territorial teams keep recycling players who have had truly long runs with not much to show for it except brief flashes of brilliance.

- Kieran Powell played 3 matches (1 not-out) and averaged 47-48

- Barath played 3 matches and averaged 25-26 but then Sarwan played 3 matches and averaged 21 and Chanders averaged 18 whilst Dwayne Bravo and Lendl Simmons (who batted in 2 innings) averaged 25 and 17 respectively. Barath was the youngest West Indian to get a century on debut and most everyone would agree that Sarwan and Chanders are good batsmen. So obviously it can't only be just the averages. However Kieran Powell doesn't get selected anyway despite having an average from that tournament that was light years away from established batsmen such as Sarwan and Chanders (and he was an opener at that).

That said, it's obvious that Gayle won't be playing against Pakistan, and this will be an opportunity for two openers to step up and try to claim their place at the top of the order. So far, it looks like it will be a partnership between Devon Smith and Adrian Barath, but given that they average in the 20s in Tests, this opening partnership will be weaker than the one we saw in Sri Lanka last year....

Perhaps so, but I doubt if Gayle was there it would be any better. He's been dropping hints that he's ready at least to take a break from test cricket - that interview and his admission to wanting to take a break after the Sri Lanka series. And with the IPL going on, his mind was obviously never going to be in it since again by his own admission when asked what he wanted to do concerning the IPL (which was going to clash with a LONG planned series with Pakistan as part of the FTP) he outright said he would like to play in the full IPL. Gayle can't be in two places at once and he admitted where he would rather be, so why should we expect that he would give 110% playing in a series he doesn't really want to be in?

[mikesiva]

Just to clarify - I'm talking about the Test team, not ODIs. I really don't mind Gibson trying youngsters in the ODIs, but I think our Test team should always feature our best players.

Sorry, when I said 'accumulated those runs' I meant 'acquired that average'....

Of course, the more you play, the more you'll accumulate. But, as Ganga has shown, the more some openers play, the more their average can go down!

I agree that Wavell Hinds could've been given a longer run, because his average of 33 was better than any other partner of Gayle before or since. But Richards was old when he came into the frame, and kept getting injured, and has performed so badly that he's now been dropped by Barbados. Yes, Devon Smith could've been given more of a run too, but he hasn't helped his case by looking totally clueless against innocuous spin.

CQ, as you know, those list of names you've quoted as openers for ODIs is all well and good, but they don't answer the question about who our Test openers will be. Of those names, only Simmons seems like a serious challenge to the probable first-choice pairing of Barath and Smith, with Fletcher's technique arguably better suited to the ODI format. Kieran Powell had a good start to the season curtailed by injury, and would probably benefit from another FC season next year, like Kraigg Brathwaite, before being groomed for WI Test selection. We don't want another Xavier Marshall, now, do we?

But if Smith and Barath fail against Pakistan, and Simmons comes in and also fails, what then? Do we stick with them for the home series against India, or do we recall Gayle? Or do we risk damaging unprepared youngsters such as Powell and Brathwaite, and call them up? Or do we go for a batsman who's made runs regionally, but whose technique may be exposed at the Test level, such as Andre Fletcher?

Based on their performances in the regional four-day domestic competition, I think the names I called in the above paragraph are the only ones who can really seriously be considered as openers in Test cricket this summer. Do you agree? Can you think of anyone else we can seriously consider to open the batting against Pakistan and India this year?

[ChrisQ]

Just to clarify - I'm talking about the Test team, not ODIs. I really don't mind Gibson trying youngsters in the ODIs, but I think our Test team should always feature our best players.

Sorry, when I said 'accumulated those runs' I meant 'acquired that average'....

Of course, the more you play, the more you'll accumulate. But, as Ganga has shown, the more some openers play, the more their average can go down!

'
Very true

I agree that Wavell Hinds could've been given a longer run, because his average of 33 was better than any other partner of Gayle before or since. But Richards was old when he came into the frame, and kept getting injured, and has performed so badly that he's now been dropped by Barbados

Richards still opens for Barbados and the reason he was too old when he came into the frame is because they selected him too late. Suppose they had selected him a year earlier? Who is to say he wouldn't have had an average of 35-40?

Yes, Devon Smith could've been given more of a run too, but he hasn't helped his case by looking totally clueless against innocuous spin.

Yeah, but then most of our players look clueless against spin too.

CQ, as you know, those list of names you've quoted as openers for ODIs is all well and good, but they don't answer the question about who our Test openers will be.

They weren't meant to. As I previously pointed out, I initially was discussing primarily ODI cricket.

Of those names, only Simmons seems like a serious challenge to the probable first-choice pairing of Barath and Smith, with Fletcher's technique arguably better suited to the ODI format. Kieran Powell had a good start to the season curtailed by injury, and would probably benefit from another FC season next year, like Kraigg Brathwaite, before being groomed for WI Test selection.

Again I wasn't talking about them for test selection. In ODIs Gayle might have benefited from a dropping at some point in his career to regain focus. There is no reason why our test openers must automatically be our ODI openers.

But if Smith and Barath fail against Pakistan, and Simmons comes in and also fails, what then? Do we stick with them for the home series against India,

Again it is rather strange that Gayle would be given 30 ODI matches in which to score a ton, but other players are given one series to sink or swim. Smith had a good domestic season last year and played well for the West Indies A and was the only top order batsman to get a 100 at the world cup recently. If they drop him because he had a bad series with Pakistan but bring back a fella who hasn't scored a ton in 34 ODIs then Smith may as well go into the drug-dealing business because in cricket he would be expected to perform more miracles than Jesus whilst others are allowed to get away with murder.

or do we recall Gayle?

After his tirade? Gayle just did a Herschelle Gibbs on himself, only he wasn't smart enough to put it in a book and get money for it. Gayle seems all set to just play IPL and Big Bash. Good for him. Hope he doesn't end up like his former team-mate, Fidel Edwards (or worse like ol' "Freddie" Flintoff) and end up getting a severe injury as a result of not having fully recovered while playing in IPL

Or do we risk damaging unprepared youngsters such as Powell and Brathwaite, and call them up?

Perhaps. Or maybe they stick with Devon Smith, Adrian Barath, Lendl Simmons, Darren Bravo, Marlon Samuels, Chanderpaul and Nash. Why go back to Gayle since he doesn't seem to want the responsibility? He turns down a central contract, indicates he would like to play in the full IPL and then blames Sammy for messing up the team by accepting the captaincy that he basically rejected.